Gulf Stream Collapse Scare Debunked by Royal Society

From The Daily Sceptic

One of the more unforgivable climate scares foisted on the public by green fanatics is the suggestion that the Gulf Stream is about to break down, plunging the northern hemisphere into a new ice age. Last July, both the Guardian and the BBC reported that the Gulf Stream could collapse by 2025, bringing catastrophic climate impacts. All of this fearmongering relies on models, and these have also led the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) to forecast it is “very likely” that the entire system of North Atlantic currents will weaken in the near future. Needless to say, these models have an impressively poor track record, and this has been revealed in a recent paper published by the Royal Society. “If these models cannot reproduce past variation, why should we be so confident about their ability to predict the future,” ask the scientific authors.

The Gulf Stream is part of a wider system of currents known as the Atlantic Meridional Overturing Circulation (AMOC). By bringing warmer waters from the south, it is estimated to increase coastal area temperatures in parts of the northern hemisphere by up to 5°C. The collapse of the AMOC was behind the arrival of a new ice age in the 2004 Hollywood sci-fi blockbuster The Day After Tomorrow. It has been a firm favourite of climate alarmists ever since. Of course, the political push towards the collectivist Net Zero project is behind much of the copy. Writing his Gulf Stream collapse nonsense last July, Guardian Environment Editor Damian Carrington said the prospect of an AMOC collapse was extremely concerning, “and should spur rapid cuts in carbon emissions”.

The Royal Society authors find that the climate models that are stuck with an assumption that humans can and do control the AMOC have been wrong for decades. Neither past nor current models are successful in representing actual AMOC observational data. They go on to add: “If it is not possible to reconcile climate models and observations of the AMOC in the historical period, then we believe the statement about future confidence about AMOC evolution should be revised. Low confidence in the past should mean lower confidence in the future.”

Many of the scare tactics employed by mainstream media and green activists are given weight by the IPCC’s suggestion that the AMOC will weaken in future as “very likely”. But the authors note the models cannot reproduce past variations, causing them rightly to ask why we should be confident about their ability to predict the future. The challenge for the AMOC  community is either to reconcile the differences between climate models and observations or to better understand the reasons for deviation. “We believe that progress needs to be made in understanding why models do not reproduce past AMOC variability and that this is the key to having confidence in the future evolution of this key climate variable,” they state.

Fine words, but in the meantime we are stuck with climate models that are patently unfit for purpose, except, of course, for the vital political work of scaring populations into widespread Net Zero economic and societal compliance.

The use of climate models to promote the collapse of the Gulf Stream is one of the more egregious corruptions of science that is being used to support political aims. A recent report from Clintel found that IPCC models use input data that suggest future global temperatures would rise by up to 4°C in less than 80 years. This despite the organisation stating such a possibility is of “low likelihood”. In the last 25 years, global temperatures have risen barely 0.2°C. Over 40% of IPCC climate impact statements arise from the improbable temperatures ‘pathways’, rising to over 50% in the wider scientific literature. It is likely that this figure is much higher in the mainstream media that has a habit of reporting uncritically on the most obvious clickbait material.

None of this is good for the scientific process. The science writer Roger Pielke Jnr. is worried, noting recently that an overtly partisan approach may be compromising public trust and confidence and making the practice of science much more political. Ignoring a substantial body of empirical data and real world experience indicates that the politicisation of science quickly turns pathological for science and society alike. “The consequences include an overall loss of trust in institutions of science which is replaced with determinations of trust based on identity,” he observed.

The uncharitable might conclude that with Covid and climate, the reputations of media organisations like the Guardian and the BBC are in the scientific dustbin anyway. But the increasingly evident loss of trust in a number of science disciplines is an unfolding tragedy that will have serious societal consequences. Activists along for the well-funded green ride will not care, but genuine scientists should be concerned.

Chris Morrison is the Daily Sceptic’s Environment Editor.

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2hotel9
November 15, 2023 6:04 am

When the general public refuses to believe their lies they just tell bigger ones, which people refuse to believe which leads them to telling even bigger lies, so on and so forth.

Curious George
Reply to  2hotel9
November 15, 2023 7:39 am

An old Soviet joke: There are three kind of news in the media, true, probable, and the rest.
True news are sports results.
Probable news is the weather forecast.
The rest is the rest.

another ian
Reply to  Curious George
November 15, 2023 8:45 pm

While we’re telling jokes –

Modern Oz –

In comments on EV’s at New Cat blog –

“Plenty in underground shopping carparks. One flash and you’re ash comes to mind.”

ResourceGuy
November 15, 2023 6:06 am

Climate emergency actions don’t stop with road protests and art museum attacks–they include undermining the foundations of institutions and science.

Bryan A
Reply to  ResourceGuy
November 15, 2023 11:37 am

Well their current predictions are running AMOC more than the current itself

Krishna Gans
November 15, 2023 6:18 am

Why these people don’t read observational papers contradicting these flawed model outputs ? There are several from the near past.

Mumbles McGuirck
Reply to  Krishna Gans
November 15, 2023 7:11 am

Because observations contradict the Narrative. And the Narrative must be protected from inconvenient truths.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Mumbles McGuirck
November 16, 2023 3:36 am

So they make things up, and call it science.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Krishna Gans
November 16, 2023 3:34 am

“Why these people don’t read observational papers contradicting these flawed model outputs ?”

That was my question, too.

Here you have observational data, and yet these alarmist climate scientists ignore the observational data and go with their computer simulations that look nothing like the observational data. How unscientific is that?

And the IPCC says the collapse of the gulf stream is “very likely” based on these computer simulations.

When did “likely” of one degree or another, enter into science?

When did CONfidence levels enter into science?

Alarmist Climate Science is all about politics, not science.

morfu03
November 15, 2023 6:20 am

Thanks for picking up on this!
However, this is only a “sub-chapter” of McKitrick´s finding that attribution from climate models is fundamentally flawed.
https://judithcurry.com/2021/08/18/the-ipccs-attribution-methodology-is-fundamentally-flawed/
(the scientific article is linked in that blog)

Whatever they conclude from their models (be it about the AMOC or global temperature) has simply no meaning to the real world until McKitirck´s critique is addressed.

Uh and I promised myself to remind every reader how these 8 people tried to censor science in the worst way earlier in 2023:
Pielke has a detailed article about this
https://rogerpielkejr.substack.com/p/think-of-the-implications-of-publishing

The names driving the censoring effort of Alimonti et al., circumventing any scientific process are:
Greg Holland,
Lisa Alexander,
Steve Sherwood,
Michael Mann,
Richard Betts,
Friederike Otto,
Stefan Rahmstorf and
Peter Cox

In https://phys.org/news/2022-09-scientists-urge-publisher-faulty-climate.html
“””
Cox [..] feared that striking the article from the journal would “lead to further publicity and could be presented as censorship”.
“””
Please, how else could this be presented?
It is censorship and was initiated by those 8 “climate experts”

strativarius
Reply to  morfu03
November 15, 2023 7:20 am

The paper was faulty because it was written by the wrong people and came to the wrong conclusions

stinkerp
Reply to  morfu03
November 15, 2023 8:48 am

Thank you for mentioning this and naming this rogue’s gallery of climate scientists zealots. They are central members of the Climate Inquisition destroying science and scientific enquiry in their quest to enforce their orthodoxy; Mann being one of the most fanatical. Mark Steyn got it right in his 2012 blog post “Football and Hockey” for which Mann sued him for defamation:

Michael Mann was the man behind the fraudulent climate-change “hockey-stick” graph, the very ringmaster of the tree-ring circus.

Nature never retracted Mann’s deeply flawed 1998 paper with his fraudulent data and infamous “hockey stick” graph of rapidly rising (proxy) temperatures even after its statistical flaws were revealed by statisticians Steve McIntyre and Ross McKitrick. Why should Springer Nature then retract this one based simply on the opinions of a minority of reviewers? Mann obviously still bristles over Ross and McKitrick’s takedown of his lousy methodology as he complains:

“scientists from totally unrelated fields coming in and naively applying inappropriate methods”

He doesn’t like it when experts in their field, statistics, challenge the inexpert application of statistical methods to climate studies. Mann has the gall to call for a retraction, not for any demonstrated flaws in data or methods, but simply because he doesn’t like it. It refutes his worldview to which he is deeply emotionally attached.

DavsS
Reply to  stinkerp
November 15, 2023 9:47 am

Some might say that Mann qualifies as an expert in ‘inappropriate methods’…

Richard Page
Reply to  stinkerp
November 15, 2023 2:04 pm

I’m actually surprised that Naomi Oreskes didn’t try to shoehorn her way into the cabal but I guess Friederike Otto is fast becoming the lunatic fringe of the lunatic fringe group.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Richard Page
November 16, 2023 5:30 am

Don’t be too hard on ‘Fredi’,as she is known to her friends, in her mind this is a really serious situation:-

“What were concerns over the impact on (sic) climate change are understood realities, it is costing thousands, perhaps millions, of deaths globally every single year”

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news-and-events/oxford-people/fredi-otto

morfu03
Reply to  stinkerp
November 15, 2023 3:06 pm

That was my thought exactly! How can someone like Mann successfully censor a peer reviewed article? Something went really wrong here!

I am somewhat familiar with the work of 3 of those 8,
Stefan Rahmstorf keeps publishing modeled nonsense about the vanishing Golf stream (a big topic in Europe for good reason) – that´s directly dealt with the article above citing real measurements,
Friederike Otto´s work is mainly in attribution and completely worthless as long as McKitrick´s critique is strong.
Michael Mann has a much stronger problem beside an unique and weak analysis method of which he knew it was bad at the time of publishing (see McIntrype´s spot on comments on r2 verification in Mann´s “censored directory”) -revealing deeply unethical behavior by Mann:

And thats the 3rd time I am writing about it in 3 weeks! It is that fundamental and important, just like McKitirck´s critique in model attribution:
The rejoinder by McShane and Wyner:
(it can be found here and ended a discussion involving Mann, Schmidt, Amman and others quite conclusively.. very well worth the read as well as their initial paper and the comments it drew.
https://projecteuclid.org/journals/annals-of-applied-statistics/volume-5/issue-1/Rejoinder–A-statistical-analysis-of-multiple-temperature-proxies/10.1214/10-AOAS398REJ.full )
One of several key points McShane and Wyner made quite impressively, was that any data analysis MUST include uncertainties which might arise from the proxy selection
“””
Consequently, the application of ad hoc methods to screen and exclude data in-
creases model uncertainty in ways that are ummeasurable and uncorrectable.
“””
If it was common sense before McShane and Wyner, it is now an official published answer to any proxy reconstruction article and any paper not addressing it is worthless.

!!!
In particular for Mann´s work, he needs to address in a mathematical fashion how other parameters beside temperature may affect the growth behavior of bristle cone pine tree rings (for example hydration).. just look at a few images of those trees
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTz2XD0A8rm1XHoNQPFr4JBCSB6eQLvTiDGYbUKcgNt9Temnf418el39M54X6AAyyTZCTw&usqp=CAU
asking yourself if maybe a change of the precipitation patterns over centuries might affect these trees..

The main data set used by Mann was also part of Linah Ababneh´s thesis (under the Hockey stick Co-author Hughes: https://www.geo.arizona.edu/Antevs/Theses/AbabnehDissertation.pdf
Her work was delayed by many years by the hype around that publication, but she examined bristle cone pines and their tree ring growth patterns in great detail with the conclusion in 2006:
“Future studies will need to be conducted that account for the effects of temperature and increased atmospheric carbon dioxide”
This means that the key proxy of Mann´s study and all his conclusions is at least suspicious unless he can show quantitatively how much his selection process influenced the result.

morfu03
Reply to  morfu03
November 16, 2023 7:09 am

The biggest problem I have with many prominent climate scientists is, that they hide, ignore truth and lie and thus destroy the scientific method itself.
And somehow they get away with it, which I find incredible despicable (the same is true with some politicians if I may say so)!
The statements I cite in the following could just be misleading or if they knew the correct answer these were conscious lies with personal benefit in mid and nobody seems to care about it..

With the exception of Mann, he got caught many times, there it is very well demonstrated that he lies, cheats and insults for personal gain.. where is a mainstream reporter uncovering his behavior? Good luck in court Mike, I hear Mark Steyn does not even think he needs a lawyer!
Brandon Shollenberger has a collection of some of Mann´s misdeeds (be sure to check out the comments in the individual entries, thee is lots of clear information there):
https://hiizuru.wordpress.com/2014/02/10/a-list-of-manns-screw-ups/

When Otto said
“They do not have a section on heat waves”—mentioned only in passing—”where the observed trends are so incredibly obvious”,
(https://phys.org/news/2022-09-scientists-urge-publisher-faulty-climate.html)
I believe she refers to the deliberately shortened part-dataset of this:
comment image

Rahmstorf is recorded on a list of dubious claims
https://sealevel.info/rahmstorf/

Betts notes: “The authors ignore the authoritative Intergovernmental Report on Climate Change (IPCC) report published a couple of months before their study was submitted to Springer Nature.”
(https://phys.org/news/2022-09-scientists-urge-publisher-faulty-climate.html)
This is a false claim which unfortunately is also picked up by the editor Fabroni of Alimonti´s paper.
(https://rogerpielkejr.substack.com/p/think-of-the-implications-of-publishing)

However, I want to finish with this with a graph I finally found again:

comment image

(from https://climateaudit.org/2008/03/10/mannian-pca-revisited-1/ not sure if the link shows up above)
I find it particular instructive, when thinking about the quality of Mann´s 1998 reconstruction of the global temperature about 600 years ago.
The biggest dot being the very questionable bristlecone pine proxy. This is just wrong! (not the graph, but the attempt to extract a global temperature from this)

“””
Consequently, the application of ad hoc methods to screen and exclude data in-
creases model uncertainty in ways that are ummeasurable and uncorrectable.
“””
(McShane and Wyners quote once more)

Duane
November 15, 2023 6:23 am

A very good read that totally blows up the “AMOC will collapse totaly effing with the climate in the northern hemisphere” silliness is found at:

https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/gulf-stream-collapse-amoc/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThere%20is%20evidence%20that%20%5Bthe,the%20Greenland%20and%20Norwegian%20Seas%5D.

Duane
Reply to  Duane
November 15, 2023 6:27 am

The bottom line is that AMOC is not the Gulf Stream, while the warmunist continually conflate the two phenomena. The Gulf Stream is 10 times larger in volume than AMOC, and the Gulf Stream will continue transferring heat energy from the tropics to the central and north Atlantic no matter what AMOC does, due to the Coriolis effect. So it is not only that current climate models cannot predict past results, they assume a mechanism that simply does not exist in the real world.

Editor
Reply to  Duane
November 15, 2023 7:27 am

Duane, let me expand on why the Gulf Stream exists: The Gulf Stream exists because of the trade winds in the Tropical North Atlantic, which blow from east to west, pushing the warm waters there in the same direction. That mobile water then is pushed northward in what is called the Gulf Stream. The trade winds are caused by two things: (1) sunlight and (2) the rotation of the Earth. In order for the Gulf Stream to stop, the sun has to stop shining and the Earth has to stop spinning.

There was an excellent article over a decade ago by an MIT(?) professor that explained that in more detail. His name escapes me.

Regards,
Bob

Krishna Gans
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
November 15, 2023 7:37 am

Do you mean Carl Wunasch ?

Krishna Gans
Reply to  Krishna Gans
November 15, 2023 7:37 am

Wunsch

Editor
Reply to  Krishna Gans
November 15, 2023 7:42 am

Thanks, Krishna Gans. That’s it. See the Nature article here:
Gulf Stream safe if wind blows and Earth turns | Nature

Regards,
Bob

Krishna Gans
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
November 15, 2023 8:19 am

For those not knowing Carl Wunsch and his work:

Carl Wunsch Special Issue
This special issue of the Journal of Physical Oceanography (JPO) celebrates the accomplishments of Carl Wunsch, in honor of his 65th birthday on 5 May 2006. Through the power of his vision, the rigor of his approach, and the generosity with which he has shared his ideas and resources, Carl has shaped the landscape of physical oceanography. Most scientists would be proud if they had effected one revolution in their field. Carl created four, not counting the ones before the time we entered the field. On these, suffice it to say that one is left in awe by the fact that a stellar academic career and a string of awards, including the American Geophysical Union’s Macelwane Award and election to the National Academy of Sciences, were all for work that is now more than 25 years old

michel
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
November 15, 2023 7:46 am

Are not the trade winds, their trajectory at least, also caused by the alignment of Rockies?

Editor
Reply to  michel
November 15, 2023 8:16 am

michel, the trade winds take place in the tropics equatorward of 23N latitude (and 23S in the Southern Hemisphere), while the Rockies begin at roughly 45N. The prevailing winds at 45N are westerlies.

Regards,
Bob

Duane
Reply to  michel
November 15, 2023 11:57 am

The trade winds come nowhere close to the Rocky Mountains of North America – they exist on either side of the equator up to around 22-25 deg north or south, being driven by Coriolis effect. The Rockies which range from around 35 deg north to around 59 deg north – they experience the westerlies known as the “roaring 40s” and “furious 50s” (the latter also westerly, but stronger as the nickname implies).

Krishna Gans
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
November 15, 2023 7:58 am

Gulf Stream safe if wind
blows and Earth turns

Sir — Your News story “Gulf Stream
probed for early warnings of system
failure” (Nature 427, 769; 2004) discusses
what the climate in the south of England
would be like “without the Gulf Stream”.
Sadly, this phrase has been seen far too
often, usually in newspapers concerned
with the unlikely possibility of a new ice
age in Britain triggered by the loss of the
Gulf Stream.
European readers should be reassured
that the Gulf Stream’s existence is a
consequence of the large-scale wind system
over the North Atlantic Ocean, and of the
nature of fluid motion on a rotating
planet. The only way to produce an ocean
circulation without a Gulf Stream is either
to turn off the wind system, or to stop the
Earth’s rotation, or both.
Real questions exist about conceivable
changes in the ocean circulation and its
climate consequences. However, such
discussions are not helped by hyperbole
and alarmism. The occurrence of a climate
state without the Gulf Stream any time
soon — within tens of millions of years —
has a probability of little more than zero.

Carl Wunsch
Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences,
Massachusetts Institute of Technology,
77 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge,
Massachusetts 02139, USA

DD More
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
November 15, 2023 8:30 am

We know why the Gulf Stream exists, but what would it take to stop it.

Gulf Stream system in the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico has currents velocity more than 3.5 knots (4 miles [6.5 km] per hour) as it passes through the Straits of Florida. The volume of flow there has been measured at 1,060,000,000 cubic feet (30,000,000 cubic metres) per second, or many hundreds of times that of the Mississippi River. As it turns north between Florida and the Bahamas, the Florida Current flows at a depth of some 2,600 feet (790 metres)

1 cubic meter of seawater weighs 1 024 kilograms [kg]

KE= 1/2 mv^2 or 1/2* (30,000,000 m^3 x 1,024 kg/m^3) x ( 6.5 km/hr ^2) = 13,909,500 Wh 

If the Law of Conservation of Energy is that energy can neither be created nor destroyed – only converted from one form of energy to another, and the First Law of Thermodynamics states that the change in internal energy of a system is equal to the work done by or to the system and the heat that flows in or out of it, then were is the 13.9 MW of power going to come from for every meter of length to stop it?

Richard Page
Reply to  DD More
November 15, 2023 2:10 pm

Right. So what you’re saying is the sinking of Atlantis really freed up the Gulf Stream to transport that warm water to the mid-Atlantic then? sarc.

SteveZ56
Reply to  DD More
November 15, 2023 2:43 pm

I’m not sure where the 13.9 MW figure came from. If you want kinetic energy in Joules, you need velocity in m/s, not km/hr. 6.5 km/hr is about 1.806 m/s, and multiplying by the mass rate of water in 30 million m3/s, you get a kinetic power of about 50.1 GW in the Florida current.

abolition man
Reply to  Duane
November 15, 2023 7:30 am

Thanks for the tip, Duane!
Apparently climate models are only designed to work as often as the Climatista’s spiritual leader, Karl Marx, did! I’m thinking that the climate modelers are severely limited by trying to predict the interactions of two, non-linear chaotic systems; the hydrosphere and the atmosphere. Perhaps they would be more successful if they tackled something a little more solid, the asthenosphere! This would enable them to make all the wild predictions their little hearts desire without ever having to worry about sell-by dates!

cilo
Reply to  abolition man
November 15, 2023 8:28 am

erhaps they would be more successful if they tackled something a little more solid, the asthenosphere! This would enable them to…

I know you’re being facetious, but closer attention to geology, and its effects upon meteorology, will put mankind one step further on the evolution ladder.
There is clear correlation between planetary positioning, sunspot activity, earth movements and weather patterns. I so dearly wish someone (with funding) would start paying serious attention to the actual planet when they talk about the planet’s weather, which is really just one small part of what we is…
I have often remarked here about the truly odd weather patters where I live, always blamed the geography, but the more I learn about out area’s rock life, the more I realise my weather is mostly geology. (I am crowded by some of the world’s largest craters, like the Cullinan Dome, the Vredefort dome, the Tswaing crater and one southwest of me, forget the name.) Heavy ‘lectrix, fantasmagorical weather.
So yes, look at that (look up meaning) subterranean layer of yours. It will vastly improve our meteorologicalistic prognosticationistisism.

Mumbles McGuirck
November 15, 2023 7:09 am

The irony of the top image, and with “The Day After Tomorrow” itself, is that in times of glaciation the sea level falls as more and more water is locked up in glaciers. The image should show glaciers looming over Manhattan as people walk from The Battery to Liberty Island. (OK, maybe there’s a foot bridge over the Hudson. 😉 )

Krishna Gans
Reply to  Mumbles McGuirck
November 15, 2023 7:44 am
DD More
Reply to  Mumbles McGuirck
November 15, 2023 8:49 am

See the top picture?
Statue Statistics –  Thickness of copper sheeting: 3/32 of an inch, the thickness of two pennies placed together.  Wind Sway: 50 mph winds cause the Statue to sway up to 3 inches and the torch up to 6 inches.

In the movie, the pretty lady got splashed over her shoulders with a tidal wave. Anyone want to calculate the odds the copper sheeting, supported on a Cast Iron frame, would still be in a recognizable shape? Or, in this case shifting snow and ice.

http://staticmass.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/day_2.jpg

Another little problem, as the Liberty is positioned to faced the new arrivals coming by ship, her back getting hit means the wave came from New Jersey. But it is still good enough to base a ‘Climate Model’ on.

Eng_Ian
Reply to  DD More
November 15, 2023 12:23 pm

Calculations can be simplified.

Imagine the statue as a cylinder, (large simplification), with a limited number of bolts holding the base to an assumed stiff foundation.

The load from the water can be calculated based on fluid flow, lets say it is the kinetic energy available from the flow multiplied by a coefficient of drag.

The tensile force on the bolts on the side hit by the wave can be calculated based on the height of the force, multiplied by it’s magnitude, divided by the number of bolts in tension and the distance between the front set of bolts and the ones on the leeward side.

The force in the bolts can be assessed against the capacity of the bolt, either look up the value from a manufacturer or calculate the stresses and compare to the material properties.

The odds of failure can be assessed against the above calculations. Or…… We could look at the chance of a wave hitting the statue and conclude that in the absence of a comet hit, the odds are next to zero.

I elect to not do the sums and accept that the statue will not fail due to wave action any time soon.

strativarius
November 15, 2023 7:17 am

How many fingers am I holding up, Winston?

If your life – income etc – depends on it 2 + 2 really can equal 5

Jim Masterson
Reply to  strativarius
November 15, 2023 2:14 pm

I saw a great bumper sticker the other day: “Make Orwell fiction again.”

Mumbles McGuirck
November 15, 2023 7:23 am

But the increasingly evident loss of trust in a number of science disciplines is an unfolding tragedy that will have serious societal consequences. Activists along for the well-funded green ride will not care, but genuine scientists should be concerned.

I have long maintained the meteorological profession will suffer greatly when the public becomes aware that the climate scare was a scam and they did not speak out. Most meteorologists are hard-working forecasters and not alarmists. But their silence will be seen as complicity.

strativarius
Reply to  Mumbles McGuirck
November 15, 2023 7:31 am

“”their silence will be seen as complicity.””

Precisely what it is

Krishna Gans
Reply to  Mumbles McGuirck
November 15, 2023 7:51 am

Weather Channel TV Host Goes ‘Political’- Stars in Global Warming Film Accusing U.S. Government of ‘Criminal Neglect’
Posted By Marc Morano (marc_morano@epw.senate.gov) 12:00am ET 

The Weather Channel’s top climate expert — already under fire for advocating the scientific decertification of global warming skeptics — is one of the stars of a new politically charged global warming documentary that, according to the film’s website, accuses the U.S. government of “criminal neglect” and blames “right-wing think tanks” for helping to “defeat climate-friendly legislation.”
The supercharged political message in the new documentary “Everything’s Cool,” which prominently features the Weather Channel’s climate expert Heidi Cullen, appears to conflict with the network and Cullen’s recently stated goal of not taking “a political position on global warming.” ( See Cullen’s blog ) Cullen, who hosts the Weather Channel’s weekly show “The Climate Code,” made the remarks on January 18, following the controversy surrounding her proposal that the American Meteorological Society decertify broadcast meteorologists skeptical of manmade global warming predictions. (Click here to see Cullen’s original remarks on the Weather Channel website calling on the AMS to decertify climate skeptics)

Mumbles McGuirck
Reply to  Krishna Gans
November 15, 2023 10:02 am

That article is 16 years old. Cullen hasn’t been with the Weather Channel for a decade. Seems nowadays she’s at the Monterey Bay Aquarium. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

Krishna Gans
Reply to  Mumbles McGuirck
November 15, 2023 10:25 am

You may laugh, but the Cullen statement to de-certify meteorologist beeing skeptical was one reason to start following the climate debate and to learn about.
I have no idea what is stil in the heads of meteorologist.
We have here in Germany and Switzerland a Jörg Kachelmann who is full on climatechange, but also differentiates in case of draughts, fires, wood burning and the death toll during heat waves.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Krishna Gans
November 16, 2023 4:03 am

Here in my area, the local meteorologists never mention human-caused climate change, they just report the weather.

And we are very happy about that.

If they started promoting human-caused climate change, then that would require me to write them some unflattering letters. But, thankfully, our local forecasters stick to the facts and keep human-caused climate change politics out of the conversation.

May it ever be so.

Phil.
Reply to  Mumbles McGuirck
November 17, 2023 10:07 am

That would be a Director of Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute (MBARI), which focusses of ocean research. MBARI’s mission is to Advance marine science and engineering to understand our changing ocean.

Peta of Newark
November 15, 2023 7:34 am

The exact opposite will happen and is happening.

Because the observed warming across the landmasses is caused by Katabatic (Foehn Effect) heating and not ‘haha Trapped Heat’ = downwelling airflow will be increasing over the continents.
This is basically the Urban Heat Island affecting everywhere on land and is caused not by trapped heat by lack of cooling ability =there is no water available in the cities and increasingly over the land to create water vapour which would create upwelling airflow and deflect the resistant ridge(s)
This is the classic Summer High, or Resistant Ridge – high pressure weather systems, once established, always overstay their welcome

All this air now descending upon the continents has to come from somewhere.
That is simplicity itself to organise, all you need is some warm water to create water vapour and oddly enough, oceans are brim full of the stuff

So, if the resistant ridges are becoming ore resistant, temps will be rising over the continents and to supply the descending air, upwelling airflow will incease over the ‘wet places’
i.e The ocean in this case

But this increase in upwelling flow will increase cooling of the ocean surface, where the upwelling occurs, steepening the the temperature gradient between there and where the warm water originally came from.
In the story here, that is the GoM while the water evaporates is ‘somewhere’ out in the North Atlantic.
As The Conveyor was doing the taxi-driving honours, that only means has to accelerate to keep up with increased demand.

The alert reader will see how not only have the continents become warmer, but, the air above the oceans will also increase in temperature, simply as there is larger upwelling flow of warm water vapour in that ascending leg of the Hadley Cell
(The continents provide the descending leg and is why they get hot.

Neat innit.
Katabatic Heating of the continents explains both why they and cities of course get hot but also why the ocean warms up too.

And not a single Joule of trapped heat, no need for any Hiroshimas while paying complete respect to the laws of physics and thermodynamics.

The only significant problem is that that effect means Earth is dumping energy into space.

Haha you say: Where’s it all coming from?

Antarctica – as recent stories on here have asserted and yet again can only be happening via an acceleration of ocean currents

Peta of Newark
Reply to  Peta of Newark
November 15, 2023 7:42 am

*** not really = ‘the ocean warms too’
The air above the ocean and as seen by Spencers Sputnik will be warming BUT, the water itself is cooling

michel
November 15, 2023 7:42 am

Damian Carrington said the prospect of an AMOC collapse was extremely concerning, “and should spur rapid cuts in carbon emissions”

Does he advocate the de-industrialization of China and India then? How else does he propose getting those (global) rapid cuts?

michel
Reply to  michel
November 15, 2023 7:43 am

Silly question of course. What he proposes is a faster UK Net Zero. Right, that will save the UK from the collapse, won’t it?

Tom Abbott
Reply to  michel
November 16, 2023 4:12 am

He appears to be detached from reality. A common affliction among human-caused climate change alarmists.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  michel
November 16, 2023 4:11 am

Damian Carrington doesn’t know what he is talking about with regard to the AMOC or to carbon emissions.

Climate Alarmists are convinced CO2 controls everythng. There is no evidence for this. So one has to wonder why they are so convinced.

It’s human psychology, not climate science.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  michel
November 16, 2023 5:51 am

Every article he writes includes something similar if not exactly the same words.

Phil R
November 15, 2023 7:55 am

The science writer Roger Pielke Jnr. is worried, noting recently that an overtly partisan approach may be compromising public trust and confidence and making the practice of science much more political.

Gee, ya think?

scvblwxq
Reply to  Phil R
November 15, 2023 8:29 am

The UN is politics all of the time.

Joseph Zorzin
November 15, 2023 8:25 am

“One of the more unforgivable climate scares foisted on the public by green fanatics is the suggestion that the Gulf Stream is about to break down, plunging the northern hemisphere into a new ice age.”

The alarmists need to make up their mind. Is the ocean going to boil or freeze? Hasn’t this type of craziness been with us for millennia- the end times- by fire or ice.

Joseph Zorzin
November 15, 2023 8:35 am

“IPCC models use input data that suggest future global temperatures would rise by up to 4°C in less than 80 years. This despite the organisation stating such a possibility is of “low likelihood”.”

So they should have used the weasel word “could” instead of “would”.

michael hart
November 15, 2023 9:19 am

“Last July, both the Guardian and the BBC reported that the Gulf Stream could collapse by 2025,…”

Shirley shome mishtake? 

I know the failing Gulf Stream story has been resurrected, then rejected, many times, even by climatists. But a three year timeline? I didn’t think even the BBC and Guardian combined were that stupid.

Edit in progress:
Yes, I was wrong. Mea culpa. We all make mistakes. They really are that stupid.

edsuperman
November 15, 2023 10:08 am

I’m in agreement with your takes. But I’d like your thoughts on the theories of the Beaufort Gyre releasing fresh water into the north atlantic and impacting the AMOC. None of this is anthropogenic (IMHO), so there may not be anything we can do about it.

Richard Page
Reply to  edsuperman
November 15, 2023 2:19 pm

As a theory it still doesn’t explain a lot of the past variations and relies on still more speculation and theories about the Gulf Stream. For example – what, exactly, is the proof that the Gulf Stream actually stopped in the past?

edsuperman
Reply to  Richard Page
November 16, 2023 10:33 am

I don’t think the GS has stopped in the past. At least not in a past recent enough to matter.

But I do think that it can be ‘disrupted’ to a certain limited extent. The Gyre for example, is fresh water trapped in the arctic ocean that at some point will disburse. And most likely it will do so into the North Atlantic. This is going to create some salinity changes, and also likely some temp changes in the North Atlantic waters. Back in the 60’s we had a dump like this, and it did have an effect on climate. You can read about it here. https://web.archive.org/web/20220120204318/http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0079661188900493

I’m NOT trying to say that this or anything else is going to break down the Gulf Stream… there is no evidence of that. I find that talk just fear mongering like you do. Clearly the Gulf Stream is running strong today and dumps like this have happened in the past. A dump might mix things up for a bit, and the north atlantic wouldn’t be warmed as much by the gulf because of the influx of so much cold fresh water. But this is a natural cyclical event IMHO and something that will resolve itself over time. I’m just asking for other thoughts on this phenomenon.

Since there seems to be a historical correlation between the Gyre’s release and below normal temperatures in Northern Europe… it’s something to ponder.

edim
November 15, 2023 10:59 am

Gulf stream collapsing is just another epicycle which will be shamelessly and non-scientifically brought up as soon as the multidecadal cooling starts in the next years/decades. It will be hilarious to watch the excuses.

Bob
November 15, 2023 12:25 pm

I am sure there is a place for models but models should never drive policy. Models are not science they are a tool. Thinking that a 9/16 wrench will fix your car is the equivalent of thinking climate models have the answer to climate. The 9/16 is just going to sit there it can’t do anything until someone picks it up and uses it. Even then you will need a lot more than a 9/16 to fix a car.

We have a nice list here. We need to challenge each one to publicly defend their claims. They can show up individually or collectively. I don’t think they have a leg to stand on.

Tommy2b
November 15, 2023 1:05 pm

Do the alarmists realize that ‘Day After Tomorrow’ wasn’t a documentary?

Richard Page
Reply to  Tommy2b
November 15, 2023 2:21 pm

Oh stop it. Next you’ll be telling me that ‘Don’t Look Up’ wasn’t either.

Leo Smith
Reply to  Richard Page
November 15, 2023 6:01 pm

Or 1984…

Gary Pearse
November 15, 2023 1:50 pm

I’m (fortunately) not a climate scientist, nor am I an astrologer. So, without these setbacks, let’s see if I can help anyway. During the glacial max there was no Gulf Stream warming the Northern Hemi. During the Cretaceous when the average global was 25°C, there was no Gulf Stream warming the Northern Hemi. In between these two, there was (not by this name of course).

Jim Masterson
Reply to  Gary Pearse
November 15, 2023 2:21 pm

“During the Cretaceous when the average global was 25°C, there was no Gulf Stream warming the Northern Hemi.”

Probably because the continents were barely separated back then.

Edward Katz
November 15, 2023 6:18 pm

I have to laugh at media sources like The Guardian the BBC. Apparently they’ve realized that their alarmism over a supposedly warming planet has failed, so now they’ve revived a bogeyman from the 1960s and’70s: a new ice age, due naturally to excessive fossil fuel use (what else?). They’d better give their heads a shake because no one’s going to fall for this latest hogwash either.

Joker-1
November 15, 2023 7:20 pm

I came across this website randomly, though it claims to be the ‘most viewed website on climate change’. The creator claims to be a former Metrologist and expert in weather. I have no reason to doubt his claims. But, as I peruse some of these articles, I get a strong anti-climate change bent to many of them. Personally I believe in the readings and research of many climate scientist that climate change is not a hoax. Sources like this weave a narrative that there is a climate change conspiracy and someone behind it
serves to benefit. It’s a grand conspiracy full of hokum. Sure, some climate change claims and studies may ultimately be shown to be false, but the overwhelming evidence, the average increase in global temperature, the increase in PPM of CO2 and fact it comes from fossil fuels, the melting ice, and increase in weather related catastrophe’s are undeniable. It makes me wonder who funds this endeavor? Shell, Exxon, Halliburton, the GOP?

Jim Masterson
Reply to  Joker-1
November 15, 2023 8:13 pm

I like your moniker–it explains your position rather well. Our host on many occasions has stated that he wishes he received all that oil funding. At least you’re well read enough to know that CO2 is measured in parts per million. It’s hard to believe that a gas that represents 0.04% of the atmosphere is causing major damage to the planet. But there are several individuals here who believe as you do.

Sunsettommy
Reply to  Joker-1
November 15, 2023 8:28 pm

Yet you didn’t try to show the article wrong because you are too busy posting this word salad that no amount of oil dressing will make it palatable.

I will be very surprised you post again and even have the courage to challenge any article you dislike.

Cheers.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Joker-1
November 16, 2023 4:28 am

“But, as I peruse some of these articles, I get a strong anti-climate change bent to many of them.”

Very perceptive.

“Personally I believe in the readings and research of many climate scientist that climate change is not a hoax.”

Please provide the evidence that convinces you that CO2 needs to be reduced.

“but the overwhelming evidence, the average increase in global temperature, the increase in PPM of CO2 ”

You should know that this could be just a coincidence. Correlation does not always mean causation. And of course, the correlation is with a bogus temperature record, so has no validity.

“and increase in weather related catastrophe’s are undeniable.”

No, the increase *is* deniable. The statistics say there is no increase in weather-related catastrophes.

” It makes me wonder who funds this endeavor? Shell, Exxon, Halliburton, the GOP?”

Are you an AI bot?

Richard Page
Reply to  Joker-1
November 16, 2023 5:44 am

It’s very interesting that you use the word ‘believe’ in relation to climate change – that is a sign of irrationality, belief or unsupported faith is not required for science – science only requires proof. As you quite rightly point out, with climate change there is only belief – there has never been a shred of evidence or proof to support climate change, just unsupported opinion by people trading on the ignorance and gullibility of the people. “Trust me, I’m a scientist” is not something you should ever take at face value – ask for proof, check it out and read both sides of the argument before reaching a conclusion.
As to conspiracy theories, there is no grand conspiracy, just a lot of academic vested interest that doesn’t want it’s grant funding to be taken away.

Joker-1
Reply to  Richard Page
November 16, 2023 5:30 pm

Get yourself educated re: climate. Listen to the Great Simplification with Nate Hagens. Read the research of Sir David King and others. There is plenty of data supporting the effects of climate change. I said believe, not an irrational emotion. I’m willing to accept mankind’s understanding of climate will change as we discover more. Some things will be proven, others disproven. However, we are running out of time for these debates this I know.

Jim Masterson
Reply to  Joker-1
November 16, 2023 8:00 pm

“Get yourself educated re: climate.”

You’re joking–right? Oh, yes, your moniker.

“However, we are running out of time . . . .”

Yeah, that’s not true with regard to the climate.

Phil.
Reply to  Richard Page
November 17, 2023 9:51 am

Proof belongs to Maths and logic, not science. Science requires evidence to support or refute a hypothesis, not proof.

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