Comments on: Global Climate Page https://wattsupwiththat.com The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change Tue, 19 Sep 2023 23:52:42 +0000 hourly 1 By: Ben Coles https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-2866868 Tue, 10 Dec 2019 07:54:43 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-2866868 In reply to Phil Fishman.

I believe in the science behind AGW, but would be ecstatic if the science turned out to be wrong and there’s nothing to worry about. Unfortunately, that’s looking less and less likely.

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By: harrytodd https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583077 Tue, 01 Aug 2017 16:09:10 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583077 I have developed a new theory based on a reexamination of the role of paramagnetic oxygen in the atmosphere. No, it’s not nutcase. It’s science. The conclusion is that wandering magnetic poles control global climate change. Study this link and engage a discussion: https://www.harrytodd.org

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By: Jason https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583076 Thu, 24 Nov 2016 02:52:32 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583076 How can I rebut those who show this graph? https://xkcd.com/1732/

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By: kadaka (KD Knoebel) https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583075 Thu, 18 Aug 2016 19:18:38 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583075 Dear Moderators,
Above “Ryan N. Maue PhD – PoliClimate.com” link is bad: http://policlimate.com/weather/
There is a similar “Global Tropical Cyclone Activity” page: http://policlimate.com/tropical/
But it says “Page decommissioned and moved to WeatherBELL Models”
Here is his current site: http://models.weatherbell.com/tropical.php
In the “Tropical Cyclones” section above, you are using and linked to the old graphs that are not updated. Here are the current ones (updated July 31, 2016):
Global Tropical Cyclone Accumulated Cyclone Energy (ACE)y – 1971 to Present
http://models.weatherbell.com/tropical/global_running_ace.png
Global Tropical Cyclone Frequency- 1971 to Present
http://models.weatherbell.com/tropical/frequency_12months.png
Links to datasets are at the WeatherBell page.

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By: RACookPE1978 https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583074 Sun, 01 Jun 2014 00:43:08 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583074 Funny, these things called numbers.
Odd that the so-called warrenlib refuses to even do the math.
But, to support the arthimatic involved, I did start by looking up the mass of the earth’s atmosphere:
and, you know, you’d figure after 200 billion of paid research, we would know how much of the stuff is there.
But, no.
Got the following after a few minutes looking:

4.99 x 10 ^18 kg
5.0  x 10 ^18 kg
5.0  x 10 ^18 kg
5.1  x 10 ^18 kg
5.12 x 10 ^18 kg
5.2  x 10 ^18 kg
5.2  x 10 ^18 kg
5.27 x 10 ^18 kg
5.3  x 10 ^18 kg
5.4  x 10 ^18 kg
5.5  x 10 ^18 kg

Now Trenberth, NCAR, in 1994 wrote up 5.1441 x 10^18 kg, but then NCAR corrected that value and is now using 5.1353 x 10618 kg. Since Trenberth has not been found correct before, I’m tempted to go with the NCAR number as the most accurate answer – because, obviously, it is the one with the highest number of digits!
Thus, if warrenlib agrees, we will use NCAR’s 5.1353 x 10^18 kg as the atmospheric mass.
More important, then, can all readers agree that N2, O2, and Ar are the most important non-IR absorbing gasses?
If so, can we consider them constant while looking at the small number of tons of CO2 emitted by man?
If so, would all readers check the following, since warrenlib apparently cannot?

      ppmv  mass pct  total mass
N2 780,840  75.3      3.866  x 10^18 kg
O2 209,460  23.1      1.1886 x 10^18 kg
Ar   9,340   1.288    0.0661 x 10^18 kg

From this starting point, and the data in the graphs above on this page that assume a pre-1800 CO2 level of 280 ppmv, we should be able to determine how many ppmv’s of CO2 were emitted by man at any particular year in question, right?

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By: RACookPE1978 https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583073 Sun, 01 Jun 2014 00:25:51 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583073 What names? I “did” point out that you are the direct cause of thousands of innocent deaths in the UK, but ….
So, you refuse to back up your so-called “science” with numbers. Figures. See, if you did understand the actual simple numbers involved, you would see the fallacies of your claims about the influence of man-released CO2 before 1945. And, for that matter, after 1945 as well. But, because you do NOT want to see these errors, you refuse to answer a simple question requiring only simple arithmetic. Typical.

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By: warrenlb https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583072 Sat, 31 May 2014 23:24:34 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583072 RACook:
Name calling and mysticism. I want no part of either –you may stay in your cave –alone.

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By: RACookPE1978 https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583071 Sat, 31 May 2014 21:04:52 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583071 By the way, once you have decided on what those man-caused temperature effects – due to CO2 alone! were between 1800 and 1945 … You can go ahead and try to figure out why all of the natural changes that were happening prior to 1945 are not going on in the 60 years after 1945.

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By: RACookPE1978 https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583070 Sat, 31 May 2014 21:02:18 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583070 warrenlb says:
May 31, 2014 at 1:46 pm

Mainstream science conclusions are similar, but not as black and white as yours. The analysis and evidence shows anthropogenic contributions as non-zero, and less than natural forcings up to around 1945. After that, anthropogenic forcings accelerate.

See! I agree with you.
Now, WHAT WERE THOSE CONTRIBUTIONS before 1945 due to Man’s release of CO2? Nothing else. Just man’s CO2 release.
That is, after all, why YOU are demanding the death of millions more innocents each year between now and 2100 – to stop the future releases of CO2 into the atmosphere. If today’s releases of tens of billions of tons each year for 17 years have no effect on temperatures, surely you have some evidence somewhere that 1/1000 of that much CO2 released over 50 years had – what “more” effect on global temperatures? If satellite measurements “prove” a release of tens of trillions of tons of CO2 into the air between 1979 and 2014 increased global temperatures by 1/5 of one degree in 45 years, surely the release of 1 million, 10 million, 100 million, or even 1 billion tons of CO2 between 1800 and 1945 would be demonstrable, right?
Surely you do not condemn millions to death for no reason but the “hand waving” of your so-called experts, do you? What are those numbers: How much do you believe temperature rose each year prior to 1945 due to man’s release of CO2 between 1800 and 1945?

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By: warrenlb https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583069 Sat, 31 May 2014 20:46:21 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583069 @RACOOK:
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-early-20th-century.htm
Mainstream science conclusions are similar, but not as black and white as yours. The analysis and evidence shows anthropogenic contributions as non-zero, and less than natural forcings up to around 1945. After that, anthropogenic forcings accelerate.

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By: justthefactswuwt https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583068 Sat, 31 May 2014 16:36:29 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583068 warrenlb says: May 31, 2014 at 8:53 am
You asserted that the CO2 rise cannot be attributed to man. Show your evidence that invalidates that it has.
I covered that in depth here;
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/03/29/when-did-anthropogenic-global-warming-begin/
and you can look at the CO2 data here, in our under development CO2 Page:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/reference-pages/atmosphere-page/co2-page/
I have found no evidence that Anthroprogenic CO2 emissions were a significant influence on atmospheric CO2 concentrations or Earth’s Temperature, prior to 1945/50. Can you present any evidence?

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By: justthefactswuwt https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583067 Sat, 31 May 2014 16:27:32 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583067 RACookPE1978 says: May 31, 2014 at 8:12 am
A strong comment for consideration and change!
Certainly any comment that you think detracts from a reference page, feel free to delete.
The first seven plots are clear with respect to source institute and range of plots. Very compelling information.
These reference pages are a collaborative effort, if you see something missing, e.g. the range of plots on a label, please feel free to update it.
BUT! But the titles below each plot (that part of the web page that we (you) are able to edit as a permanent label to the linked institution’s ever-changing web page) needs to include the reference period for each: 1970-1990, 1960 – 1980, 1990-2000, etc. Without thaose different reference dates, the apparent differences between each of the seven temperature records becomes very, very confusing. Is May 2014 +0.17, 0.75, 0.50, 060, 0.25 degrees?
Good point, it just so happens that I created a comment for just such a purpose, i.e.:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/05/23/crowdsourcing-an-opensource-temperature-data-monitoring-methodology-and-spreadsheet/#comment-1314625
“UAH

The global, hemispheric, and tropical LT anomalies from the 30-year (1981-2010) average
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2013/04/uah-global-temperature-update-for-march-2013-0-18-deg-c-again/

GISS

Anomalies are relative to the 1951-80 base period means
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/GLB.Ts+dSST.txt

HadCRUT4

Time series are presented as temperature anomalies (deg C) relative to 1961-1990

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcrut4/data/current/download.html
RSS

Anomalies are computed by subtracting the mean monthly value (averaged from 1979 through 1998 for each channel) from the average brightness temperature for each month.
http://www.ssmi.com/msu/msu_data_description.html#rss_msu_data_analysis

Beginning in December 2010, all lower troposphere, middle troposphere, and lower stratosphere satellite data are reported here with respect to the 1981–2010 base period. Prior to December 2010, data were reported with respect to the 1979–1998 base period. Remote Sensing Systems continues to provide data to NCDC with respect to the 1979–1998 base period; however, NCDC readjusts the data to the 1981–2010 base period so that the satellite measurements are comparable. http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/temp-and-precip/msu/

NOAA NCDC

“The global and hemispheric anomalies are provided with respect to the period 1901-2000, the 20th century average.”
“Why do some of the products use different reference periods?
The maps show temperature anomalies relative to the 1981–2010 base period. This period is used in order to comply with a recommended World Meteorological Organization (WMO) Policy, which suggests using the latest decade for the 30-year average. For the global-scale averages (global land and ocean, land-only, ocean-only, and hemispheric time series), the reference period is adjusted to the 20th Century average for conceptual simplicity (the period is more familiar to more people, and establishes a longer-term average). The adjustment does not change the shape of the time series or affect the trends within it.
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cmb-faq/anomalies.php

NOAA CPC

NOAA’s Climate Prediction Center has already changed their Normals to the 1981 – 2010 base period? Why are those Normals not available?
Many organizations, including NOAA’s Climate Prediction Center (CPC), develop their own averages and change base periods for internal use. However, NCDC’s climate Normals are the official United States Normals as recognized by the World Meteorological Organization and the main Normals made available for a variety of variables. Below is a brief summary of changes to http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cmb-faq/anomalies.phpthe CPC products due to the change in climate base period from 1971 – 2000 to 1981 – 2010:

NOAA Climate Prediction Center’s CAMS station temperature anomaly dataset. “CAMS” is an acronym for the “Climate Anomaly Monitoring System” in use at the Climate Prediction Center (CPC).

CAMS station surface air temperature anomalies for the globe with respect to the 1971-2000 climatological base period.
http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/maproom/Global/Atm_Temp/Monthly_stn_anom.html


I’ll begin to add base periods when I get an opportunity.
2. You knew there had to be a “2″ didn’t you?
Add please the Antarctic long term temperature trend (it has been negative for many years!) below the long term Arctic trend. That source can be the same as on the Sea Ice page.

I am hesitant to add regional temperature graphs, e.g. like these;
ftp://ftp.ssmi.com/msu/graphics/tlt/plots/
to the “Global” Climate page, as this page is broader than just regional temperature. The Global Temperature page has Northern and Southern Hemisphere sections at the bottom and I’ve added the RSS Northern and Southern Polar Temps there. I also might build out a Regional Temperature page when I get an opportunity.

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By: RACookPE1978 https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583066 Sat, 31 May 2014 16:24:44 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583066 warrenlb says:
May 31, 2014 at 8:53 am

@RACook:
You asserted that the CO2 rise cannot be attributed to man. Show your evidence that invalidates that it has.

FALSE!
I told YOU to show by specific evidence HOW MUCH of the CO2 increase at each of seven specific dates was due to man’s release of CO2.
YOU are the man demanding tens of thousands of innocents die because YOU want to unnaturally and artificially restrict CO2 emissions worldwide. “I” am merely trying to get YOU to admit in public exactly how little of the CO2 increase that did occur was emitted by man at those specific dates earlier in history. YOU refuse to provide those values because those numbers prove YOUR theory is wrong.

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By: RACookPE1978 https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583065 Sat, 31 May 2014 16:16:39 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583065 @RACOOK:

My case is that of the IPCC, backed up by evidence and the Science.

Rather “My case is that of the IPCC my chosen priests of my religious faith who are rewarded based on their faith in my religion, backed up by evidence that I refuse to present (because I refuse to present information that contradicts my religious faith) and the Science my sacred Text as written by the chosen priests of my religious faith.” Well, that is what you mean, right?

I welcome your evidence that disproves this case.

CO2 levels were steady. Global average temperatures rose at the same rate they were rising between 1975 – 1996.
CO2 levels were steady, temperatures were steady.
CO2 levels were steady, temperatures fell at the same rate that they fell between 1945 and 1975.
CO2 levels rose, temperatures fell.
CO2 levels rose, temperatures were steady.
CO2 levels rose, temperatures rose at the same rate that they rose when CO2 levels were steady.

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By: warrenlb https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583064 Sat, 31 May 2014 15:55:58 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583064 @RACOOK:
My case is that of the IPCC, backed up by evidence and the Science. I welcome your evidence that disproves this case.

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By: warrenlb https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583063 Sat, 31 May 2014 15:53:38 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583063 @RACook:
You asserted that the CO2 rise cannot be attributed to man. Show your evidence that invalidates that it has.

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By: RACookPE1978 https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583062 Sat, 31 May 2014 15:46:08 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583062 Let me ask again.
What exactly do YOU calculate as man’s contribution to the earth’s CO2 level in ppmv at the following dates:
(1) 1800 –
(2) 1890 –
(3) 1915 – When warming began
(4) 1945 – When cooling began again
(6) 1975 – When CAGW warming began
(7) 1996 – When CAGW warming stopped
What was the increase in global average temperature based on that change in CO2 on each of those dates?

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By: warrenlb https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583061 Sat, 31 May 2014 15:37:12 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583061 @RACook1978
RACook says: “True “scientists” know that atmospheric CO2 was NOT influenced by man’s contributions until 1945. ”
In the MIlankovitch cycles, the CO2 rise occurs in time frames of the order of one, or a few 10s of thousands of years, much faster than the more gradual downtrend at end of cycle. In contrast, the rise in CO2 that began in the early to mid 1800s has occurred in < 200 years — two orders of magnitude faster than Milankovitch CO2 increases.
Your statement does nothing to disprove the conclusion that this < 200 year-long rise in atmospheric CO2 rise is the consequence of mans addition of Greenhouse gases to the atmosphere.

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By: RACookPE1978 https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583060 Sat, 31 May 2014 15:12:56 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583060 justthefactswuwt says:
May 30, 2014 at 10:38 pm
A strong comment for consideration and change!
The first seven plots are clear with respect to source institute and range of plots. Very compelling information.
BUT! But the titles below each plot (that part of the web page that we (you) are able to edit as a permanent label to the linked institution’s ever-changing web page) needs to include the reference period for each: 1970-1990, 1960 – 1980, 1990-2000, etc. Without thaose different reference dates, the apparent differences between each of the seven temperature records becomes very, very confusing. Is May 2014 +0.17, 0.75, 0.50, 060, 0.25 degrees?
2. You knew there had to be a “2” didn’t you?
Add please the Antarctic long term temperature trend (it has been negative for many years!) below the long term Arctic trend. That source can be the same as on the Sea Ice page.

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By: justthefactswuwt https://wattsupwiththat.com/global-climate/#comment-583059 Sat, 31 May 2014 05:38:39 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=36740#comment-583059 RACookPE1978 says: May 30, 2014 at 7:44 pm
Excellent!
We are (obviously) on a question-and-reply type format.
After comments ease – or after you have resolved such issues and corrections as may be required, do you anticipate “closing reply” box and presenting the data as in the Solar Reference Page and Sea Ice Page?

Comments on the reference pages have offered a good forum for people to provide input. They have been helpful in maintaining continually evolving data elements.from different sources, e.g. suggesting new content, or pointing out when something breaks or gets stale. Also, some interesting occurrences have come in on the reference pages, e.g. the comment from Tim that I reference in this recent article:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/05/26/new-wuwt-enso-forecast-page-underwater-upgrades-to-the-wuwt-enso-page-and-a-disturbance-in-the-equatorial-atlantic/
The Solar, Sea Ice and ENSO pages, are actually the outliers, as Anthony created them, thus comment notifications would go to him. Perhaps we should treat the Reference Pages more like Tips and Notes, and delete any comments that don’t add to the substance of the reference page?

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