Comments on: Paleoclimate Page https://wattsupwiththat.com The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change Wed, 22 Jul 2020 03:12:27 +0000 hourly 1 By: Rod Martin Jr https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-3038067 Wed, 22 Jul 2020 03:12:27 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-3038067 Increasingly, the sources of these graphs (on many of the WUWT data pages) are disappearing. Either the domain doesn’t pay their bills, or the government agency hides the data that was once available. And the WayBack Machine (archive.org) doesn’t always retrieve the graph.

Before this becomes even more problematic, can we get the most endangered graphs hosted locally? Otherwise, these data pages may become increasingly of less value.

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By: Josefine Munch https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-2890711 Sat, 11 Jan 2020 11:41:24 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-2890711 The General Assembly of the European Geosciences Union ( EGU ) takes place in Vienna, Austria, from 3-8 May 2020. Applicants must contact an SSC member at least two weeks before the deadline to explain the meeting plan and how it is relevant to PAGES.

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By: Michael Z. Williamson https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-2806232 Thu, 26 Sep 2019 03:04:05 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-2806232 In reply to Daryl Barret.

Well first, Al Gore is not a scientist of any kind. All he can do is report on the work of others. Second, his family is heavily invested in oil, “carbon credits,” and real estate. Given that, he is very likely to have a bias that affects his own bottom line. Whether or not such rises beyond favoritism to outright lying would take a court case to determine.

Note, though, that Mann was unable to refute charges of falsifying his data, and Gore relies a lot on Mann.

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By: Michael Z. Williamson https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-2806228 Thu, 26 Sep 2019 03:01:20 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-2806228 In reply to harrytodd.

It is unlikely that such a single factor would “control” climate change, given we have direct radiation input from the sun. It would be worth studying previous major magnetic shifts for correlation to other climate shifts. And directing people to “Read and study” a single blog of your own is presumptuous.

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By: John Reid https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-2759169 Fri, 02 Aug 2019 06:57:03 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-2759169 Melt ponds play a major role in the absorption of solar insolation. Absorption by a water surface is a strong function of solar elevation and so it is solar elevation at high northern latitudes during the summer which determines albedo and melt rates. The stable stratification of melt ponds in the range 0oC to 4oC allows storage of heat from summer to summer while the positive feedback between pond area and heat uptake leads ultimately to exponential growth followed by catastrophic collapse. All five Terminations occurred at times of peak or increasing Annual Water Surface Absorbed Insolation, a better match than previous models.

http://fluidcatastrophe.net/?page_id=675

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By: Daryl Barret https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-2537330 Fri, 30 Nov 2018 03:29:33 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-2537330 How are these graphs possible? Are they all fakes? These are what I remember from school when I was studying paleontology – but this is very different from everything that is presented by anyone in the IPCC or what Al Gore presented. Why is that? Who is right? Would Al Gore lie?

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By: harrytodd https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-917427 Wed, 02 Aug 2017 07:46:59 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-917427 Wandering magnetic poles control global climate change. Watts up with that? Read and study, then engage in a discussion: https://www.harrytodd.org

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By: Simon Swefford https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-917426 Sun, 04 Sep 2016 15:40:32 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-917426 En los locales en los que se ejerza la actividad clasificada en este epígrafe, la deducción a que se refiere la letra c) de la regla 14.1.F de la Instrucción del impuesto será en todo caso del 20 . Epígrafe 653.4.- Comercio al por menor de materiales de construcción y de artículos y mobiliario de saneamiento. Epígrafe 654.2.- Comercio al por menor de accesorios y piezas de recambio para vehículos terrestres.

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By: R Graf https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-917425 Sun, 01 Feb 2015 06:21:26 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-917425 In reply to d.

Looking at records that are more than 200 yrs old in a system that is many millions of years is helpful to know where we are in terms of the planet’s history, not just the industrial revolution’s. I would estimate that 97% of people on the street would have not a clue that 90% of the last 100 thousand years had most of the northeast USA either under ice glaciers or too cold to inhabit. The same is true for the last several million years. The last 10,000 years is a warm spike. All that I just mentioned has little to do with CO2 since temperature changes, particularly downward ones lead the adjustment in CO2. My explanation on that is C02 only exists in the atmosphere as life keeps it from the oceans since the life cycle is much quicker than the rate that CO2 can be collected by the ocean. Although we are warm now compared to 100 years ago or 500 years ago we are not warmer than 1000 years ago and cooler than many times before that. My worry is that most warming periods ended in the past by now and descended back to ice age normal. This is what alarmed scientists in the early 1970s.

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By: Steve Keohane https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-917424 Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:48:52 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-917424 I have 4 PDF files of summaries by area and time of the last 10K years of history around the Arctic Circle, by Amanda Graham, BA, Dipl. NOST, MA, of Yukon College. They make a quick reference and would be a good addition to this page. Contact me and I will send them to you. I’ve had them for six years and cannot find the link I procured them from.

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By: Tilly https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-917423 Thu, 18 Sep 2014 01:01:02 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-917423 In reply to Tim Daw.

To the first anonymous raeder,Do have brain left in your skull?? If yes, please start working with it and start thinking…….CY has committed a crime, he misled the whole population of HK, the governement, fooled all of us…And the senior civil servants have worked together to cover up the truth in order to exempt him from criminal prosecution or being blamed for dishonesty. This helped him win the chief Executive election early this year. Look, the whole governement biased against his former opponent of the Chief Executive election, Mr Tong Ying Ning, Henry, who was being blamed for unauthorized building inside his house.Please remember by your brain that CY denied, during the election campaign, he had unauthorized buildings/ constructions inside his house . This signifies that the standard of justice is decaying and corruption by a whole group of people masterminded by CY Leung. I remember the last Governer of HK under the rule of Britan, Mr Chris Patten,who warned that HK would be eventually killed by some local people instead of Beijing directly. See, the first anonymous raeder, if you have brain and hopely have eyes, please take a look at all of these deliberate attacks to system of Law and Administration of HKG. It is so scary and frightening!! I am so shock that you cannot see, instead you view it as a personal attack by the rich in HK or political rivals. HK is dying, people of HK are being killed. Sigh……

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By: LamontT https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-917422 Fri, 21 Feb 2014 06:49:29 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-917422 The graph hosted at http://www.greenworldtrust.org.uk/ appears to have gone walk about. Actually all of their linked stuff appears to have gone away.

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By: dbstealey https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-917421 Wed, 07 Aug 2013 00:12:26 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-917421 d,
Did you view the charts above? For example, this chart is one of several that shows something interesting: both hemispheres track global temperatures very closely. Therefore, the question of ‘geological location’ is answered. Furthermore, in each hemisphere there are a number of ice core bores, and they all agree with each other.
Regarding CO2 as a ‘greenhouse gas’, most folks would agree that CO2 has had some effect on global temperature. However, that effect is too small to measure. Why? Because most of the warming effect has taken place within the first 20 ppm of atmospheric CO2. At current concentrations, even a large CO2 increase will not measurably raise global temperatures. We see that despite the 40% rise in CO2, that global warming has stopped for the past fifteen or more years.
The “carbon” scare is fueled primarily by government grants. CO2 [AKA: “carbon”] is actually a very minuscule forcing agent. There are no verifiable, testable measurements of global temperature change due to CO2 — and anthropogenic CO2 is only a small fraction of the total, so human emissions are not a factor.
Anyone who adheres to the Scientific Method must agree that the “carbon” scare is based on assertions and conjectures, but not on measurable data, because there is none. But I for one appreciate your asking the question. The more the answers are explained, the better decisions the public can make.

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By: d https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-917420 Tue, 06 Aug 2013 23:49:11 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-917420 I see a lot of graphs representing ice core data. There are other climate records that exist besides isotopic reconstructions. One hole in an ice sheet in a single hemisphere, no matter how far back it goes, is not representative of global average temperature. Also, many of the events that are pointed out in those graphs have ranges associated due to error and or geographic location. They are not single data points on a line.
You have put forth a grate effort supporting your hypothesis that anthropogenic climate change is not occurring. I am going to pose the next logical question.
I would assume you acknowledge CO2’s properties as a greenhouse gas. You must have some type of theory or hypothesis as to what is mitigating the effects of releasing millions of years of stored carbon as CO2 into the atmosphere over an unequivocally short timescale. You must have quite a bit of evidence to support this theory to be so emphatic. My advice would be to not keep this to yourself. Instead of spending your time attacking “alarmists”, a better use of your energy and resources would be to explain your theory, and educate the rest of the scientific community, as well as the public, as to why there is no reason for concern. I am posing this as a serious question. Please elaborate.

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By: justthefactswuwt https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-917419 Tue, 16 Apr 2013 01:54:48 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-917419 dvunkannon says: April 15, 2013 at 12:32 pm
The top graph on the page does not match its title:
472 Years – CET Extended Graph – Tony Brown – Graph Background
The article linked to under ‘Tony Brown’ on Judith Curry’s blog contains many graphs, this is not one of them.
The graph itself contains an error of attribution. It claims to be based on US meteorology data, but the actual source URL given is to the Australian Bureau of Meteorology. The URL does link to a time series of what appears to be temperature anomaly data. However, the person who produced the chart has obscured the values by seemingly adding a constant to them, perhaps 15. This is nowhere in the source data. The actual data vary in a range of -0.6 to 0.6, and the chart would be more valuable to this page if it was redrawn from the data at the URL.
Looking around on the Australian BOM site, I haven’t been able to find an indication of which anomaly time series this is supposed to be, So the chart, even if redrawn to a proper scale, would be of little value for users of this page.
My suggestion – do not use this chart on this page. Choose one of the charts in the long post referred to in the title, for example
http://curryja.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/12.jpg
Best of luck!

You are absolutly correct, that was the wrong graph. I was working on several things at once and inadvertantly overwrote the graph on this page with a graph someone had posted in another thread, i.e.:
[caption id="" align="alignnone" width="542"] http://catallaxyfiles.com/ – Click the pic to view at source[/caption]
Your critique of this graph is valuable and I will link to it if anyone uses this graph again.

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By: dvunkannon https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-917418 Mon, 15 Apr 2013 19:32:37 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-917418 The top graph on the page does not match its title:
472 Years – CET Extended Graph – Tony Brown – Graph Background
The article linked to under ‘Tony Brown’ on Judith Curry’s blog contains many graphs, this is not one of them.
The graph itself contains an error of attribution. It claims to be based on US meteorology data, but the actual source URL given is to the Australian Bureau of Meteorology. The URL does link to a time series of what appears to be temperature anomaly data. However, the person who produced the chart has obscured the values by seemingly adding a constant to them, perhaps 15. This is nowhere in the source data. The actual data vary in a range of -0.6 to 0.6, and the chart would be more valuable to this page if it was redrawn from the data at the URL.
Looking around on the Australian BOM site, I haven’t been able to find an indication of which anomaly time series this is supposed to be, So the chart, even if redrawn to a proper scale, would be of little value for users of this page.
My suggestion – do not use this chart on this page. Choose one of the charts in the long post referred to in the title, for example
http://curryja.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/12.jpg
Best of luck!

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By: justthefactswuwt https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-917417 Fri, 12 Apr 2013 02:38:42 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-917417 berniel says: April 10, 2013 at 8:57 pm
The IPCC 1st Assessment Report Graph should at least be relegated to the disputed graphs sections. There are a number of reason that I can elaborate. Briefly: 1. it was give as just a ‘sketch’. 2. Its sources are poor and invalid – based on Lamb’s estimations for Central England.
Steve McIntyre had a good thread on this graph.
http://climateaudit.org/2008/05/09/where-did-ipcc-1990-figure-7c-come-from-httpwwwclimateauditorgp3072previewtrue/
which I’ve added to the graph for reader’s reference:
1,100 Years – LambIPCC Assessment Report 1Graph Background
I also reviewed Skeptical Science’s take on the IPCC graph;
http://www.skepticalscience.com/print.php?r=338
and I don’t see any references to Lamb’s “poor and invalid” sources within either thread. Please post links to references supporting your assertions about Lamb’s “poor and invalid” sources.

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By: berniel https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-917416 Thu, 11 Apr 2013 03:57:57 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-917416 The IPCC 1st Assessment Report Graph should at least be relegated to the disputed graphs sections. There are a number of reason that I can elaborate. Briefly: 1. it was give as just a ‘sketch’. 2. Its sources are poor and invalid – based on Lamb’s estimations for Central England.

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By: EveningStarNM https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-917415 Tue, 02 Apr 2013 02:45:52 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-917415 What is the lag time in the reflection of air temperature trend changes in ice cores? How should ice core temperature data be presented when it is used to comment about changes is air temperatures? What constitutes a valid use of ice core temperature data when making public statements about current and future climate conditions?
The only thing that we can conclude from these graphs is that we are experiencing a rapid increase in temperature over a short period of time,

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By: Duster https://wattsupwiththat.com/paleoclimate/#comment-917414 Sun, 31 Mar 2013 03:07:10 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.com/?page_id=72718#comment-917414 I would suggest including Shaviv and Veizer 2003. They provide a graphic that is substantially the same as 545,000,000 year chart offered at C3Headlines. They also argued for a linkage between major climate shifts and cosmic ray flux. Ironically a copy can be found here:
http://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/Publications/PDF_Papers/shaviv-veizer-03.pdf

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