EPA brief filed in Young v. EPA

From JunkScience.com

EPA’s brief is here. My quick summary of the agency’s argument on appeal is: 1) You can’t sue us; and 2) Even if you could, we can do whatever we want. While that is the standard government agency defense, I doubt that Congress intended for EPA to rig mandatory peer review.

2023.03.31 Young v. EPA Appellee Brief

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Tom Halla
April 2, 2023 6:06 am

Making the EPA a separate agency was one of the more malign things Nixon ever did. That gives them a “special prosecutor” mindset, where nothing can ever be good enough, and there cannot be higher priorities.

Duane
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 2, 2023 7:20 am

So whenever the US military commits some thing that offends you, or someone, are we to say it was a mistake to create the military?

Your comment makes no sense – there HAS to be a separate agency to enforce environmental laws, of which we have many. What, is the USDA supposed to enforce those laws? The military? The FDA?

The point is not whether the EPA exists, the point is that under Democratic Presidents the agency becomes too aggressive on their pro-environmental/anti-industrial practices. And when a Republican President is in the White House, that problem goes away. It’s how it’s always been since EPA was created.

The answer to avoiding EPA abuses is to elect Republican Presidents who will keep them in check and obey the laws that Congress enacts.

Our Constitution is based upon the entirely sensible principle that the best way to avoid or at least limit governmental abuses of the people is through its separation of powers, including Congressional oversight of all administrative agencies, and the power of courts to overturn illegal moves by the agencies.

Scarecrow Repair
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 8:08 am

No the EPA does not need to exist. How the heck did the USA survive for 200 years before it was created?

Did you know that NYC in the late 1800s had “sniffer squads”, people who would track bad smells back to their source so people could sue for pollution? Others used forensic evidence to track smoke and other pollution down to its sources. The polluters pulled their crony cards and got the government courts and legislatures to shut them down as not taking into account the public good; it was up to the government to decide how much pollution the nation could tolerate, and woe betide any individual who thought otherwise (Supreme Court of Georgia, Holman v Athens Empire Laundry Co., 1919: “The pollution of the air, so far as reasonably necessary to the enjoyment of life and indispensable to the progress of society, is not actionable”).

Scarecrow Repair
Reply to  Scarecrow Repair
April 2, 2023 8:10 am

I would normally add the source of this, but I didn’t write that down. Best I could guess from looking at books I have bought on Amazon is “The Big Oyster” by Mark Kulansky; I know the source book is somewhere in my house, but darned if I can find it.

Duane
Reply to  Scarecrow Repair
April 2, 2023 10:17 am

The USA was extremely polluted the 100 years before EPA was created … which is why it was created.

Maybe you are too young to remember or ever experience the dense clouds of noxious air pollution that hung over all our major cities, to where one could not even see the adjacent mountains… or when rivers were so polluted it would kill one to drink the water or eat the fish, with gobs of sludge and tires and trash lying along the shoreline and stinking to high heaven. I remember all of that.

That’s the world in 1970. It had to change.

Scarecrow Repair
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 12:00 pm

It was changing, already. Do you not remember the horror stories from the communist nations after the USSR and Warsaw Pact fell apart? Capitalism at its worst was better than communism at its best. Free markets were cleaning the environment before government jumped on the bandwagon.

It was ever thus. Politicians grab on to some popular trend, after it has begun trending. Look at this graph of vehicle accident rates, and see if you can tell when the government jumped into the fray. You can’t.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year

The EPA has done nothing that free markets weren’t already doing, better.

pflashgordon
Reply to  Scarecrow Repair
April 2, 2023 2:03 pm

Absolutely right. Where pollution is realized and becomes intolerable, societies and the companies themselves tend to self regulate. The reason Congress acted was because the nation was already recognizing and beginning to address air, water and land pollution. Law and regulation merely codifies the trend. That wouldn’t be such a bad thing except that there is an ancient and universal problem — governmental power and overreach. Regulatory agencies, once created, become self-perpetuating and bloated bureaucracies, soon lose sight of Congressional intent, and regulate far beyond their charters.

Jesus walked among the Jews at a time that they had taken their original covenant with God far beyond His intent. While entirely within God’s plan, Jesus was crucified due to the attitudes and actions of the intolerant and rigid bureaucrats and legalists of the day.

When a government agency or branch has no “sunset” provision and has extended themselves to the extreme, it is time that they be reviewed and eliminated or greatly reined in and shrunken by those who created them. That is where we find much of the U.S. executive branch today. EPA, Energy, Defense, Homeland Security, Health, Education, etc. Should one (e.g., Trump) along with those who support his ideas try to do this, the government bureaucracy uses all of its power at every turn to destroy that person and declare his supporters enemies of the state.

pflashgordon
Reply to  pflashgordon
April 2, 2023 2:05 pm

The same is true, I am sorry to say, of universities feeding at the trough of government-funded research, as we were warned by President Eisenhower.

Thomas
Reply to  Scarecrow Repair
April 4, 2023 7:58 am

Yes one can. Seat belt laws were enacted in 1968. Deaths per 100,000 population peaked around 25 in the early 1970s and are now half what they were in the early 70s.

doonman
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 12:50 pm

But it did change and was cleaned up. We could say thanks, now go home. Instead, they need to find something else to do in order to remain an agency that does something. Hence, the increasingly strict tolerance limits and scare stories for increased funding to accomplish less and less.

sturmudgeon
Reply to  doonman
April 2, 2023 2:14 pm

When politicians ‘create’ some agency or another, it is of Concrete, and no ‘wind’ of the populace can destroy it. Only if the politicians ‘decide’ it interferes with their interests, is it likely to be gone.

Martin Brumby
Reply to  doonman
April 2, 2023 7:51 pm

Hence also the fraud and illegality of the Six Cities study, where they even pumped diesel fumes into a closed chamber containing uninformed ‘volunteers’ to see if they could kill a few and bolster their bogus claims that modern “air pollution” was toxic.

People who lived through the 1950s hadn’t forgotten what ‘real’ air pollution was like. And manufacturers had made a new 1980s car travelling at 70mph less “polluting” than a new 1950s car parked up with the engine switched off.

Writing Observer
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 3:45 pm

I wish that I had a gallon or two of Animas River water to send you – perfectly safe to drink, right, since the EPA did their business?

Mike McMillan
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 8:44 pm

In defense of Duane, the air and water weren’t nearly as clean in the 1960’s as they are now. I was around then. The EPA put a gun to peoples’ heads and got things moving.

Then the EPA started going off track, demanding the really dumb stuff we read about here at WUWT. It should be defunded and things turned over to the states and let the states answer to the locals for the dumb stuff.

Not perfect, but a start.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Mike McMillan
April 3, 2023 9:48 am

Please do not turn over any more authority to the California Air Resources Board, the California Coastal Commission, or the myriad other bureaucracies in The Golden State that protect us from ourselves.

Matt Kiro
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 8:17 am

Except the US elects the Commander in Chief every four years. There is only a vast bureaucracy for the EPA, which should not be trying to run everyone’s live with regulations. They aren’t enforcing laws, they are practically making them up outside of congress who is the only part of the government that can. The biggest environmental abusers of the past 40 years have been the government anyway, meanwhile the environment has no need to worry about CO2 unless it goes too low.

Duane
Reply to  Matt Kiro
April 2, 2023 10:22 am

The same Commander in Chief also commands the EPA. Which is why their performance is a direct reflection of whoever is in the White House. The President appoints and can fire the EPA Administrator and all of the senior managers in the agency.

If you don’t like how EPA works under Biden, elect a Republican instead, and I guarantee the agency decisions will be different.

That’s how a democratic republic is supposed to operate, according to the will of the voters.

pflashgordon
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 2:08 pm

Congress should also provide REAL, TANGIBLE oversight to see that the Executive Branch has not gone beyond their intent in writing the enabling legislation. Congress can also repeal or modify those laws to limit the bureaucracy.

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 8:53 am

‘The answer to avoiding EPA abuses is to elect Republican Presidents who will keep them in check and obey the laws that Congress enacts.’

That hasn’t worked and can’t work because the political appointees of the executive branch have no control over the permanent bureaucracy, i.e., the so-called ‘deep state’. And absent such control, the deep state acts predictably (according to ‘Public Choice Theory’) to expand its power, meaning it’s going to oppose (or favor) any administration that supports contraction (or expansion) of same.

Trump only belatedly figured this out, and came up with a way to reform the deep state by amending Civil Service rules (Schedule F) to designate unelected policy makers as ‘at will’ employees. As such, they could be subject to dismissal if they act to sabotage the lawful directives of an elected President and/or Congress. You might not like Trump, but limited government is doomed absent some way to reign-in the deep state.

Details are here:

https://brownstone.org/articles/the-astonishing-implications-of-schedule-f/

Duane
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
April 2, 2023 10:25 am

It most certainly HAS worked that way. I guarantee that any EPA haters here at WUWT were vastly happier with EPA policies and rules when Trump was President, and when both Bushes were President, and when Reagan was President … than they were and are now when it was Clinton, Obama, or Biden in the White House.

That’s why we have elections in our republican democracy … and that’s why elections matter.

Scarecrow Repair
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 12:01 pm

Huh …. wasn’t it a Republican President who created the EPA?

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 1:22 pm

I don’t think being ‘happier’ with Trump’s EPA rather than Obama’s EPA is a very high hurdle. Sort of like being happier to be hanged vs. hanged, drawn and quartered.

Again, absent any reform of the Civil Service provisions that enable the deep state, ANY administration, and that includes RINO squishes like Bush I & Bush II, that attempts even a minor roll-back of the EPA’s excesses, will run into a brick wall.

sturmudgeon
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 2:17 pm

Only if they are ‘True’ elections. (but I admire your optimism)

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
April 3, 2023 9:51 am

Another way to rein-in the lower-level functionaries is to transfer them to Nome, Alaska and assign them nothing to do.

With apologies to the citizens of Nome.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 9:14 am

Duane, you missed my point. What the EPA did in the early 1970’s was needed, but a bureaucracy devoted to a single purpose can be uncontrollable.
I will suggest Chester Arthur was a fool for Civil Service, as the bureaucrats are no longer really accountable to elected officials control. Truly evil people, like Woodrow Wilson, will try to run the government through their creation of more and more entities.
The “spoils system” meant the government could be held responsible.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 1:34 pm

Your comment makes no sense – there HAS to be a separate agency to enforce environmental laws, of which we have many. What, is the USDA supposed to enforce those laws? The military? The FDA?”

The problem is when any part of The Executive Branch can declare a “Regulation” (or Executive Order) that has the effect of Law.

Drake
Reply to  Gunga Din
April 2, 2023 6:00 pm

The EPA attempted to regulate gas stoves and a judge shut them down, but with the deep state totally controlled by leftists like Duane, the DOE promulgated the exact same requirement.

So Duane, yes, some other regulatory agency may well try. What do they have to lose? It is taxpayer’s money paying for their wishes to become reality.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Drake
April 3, 2023 9:53 am

Wasn’t it the Consumer Product Safety Commission? The EPA is trying to resurrect the PMA 2.5 issue.

Writing Observer
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 3:43 pm

We already had a Department of the Interior. Should we have a separate Cabinet level agency to ensure that a tight focus is kept on certifying dog catchers? (With a budget of at least $50 billion, of course.)

DonM
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 5:34 pm

Founders’ checks and balances: Judicial vs Legislative vs Executive.

Dumbass checks & balances: Executive vs Itself vs Hired Staff

I think the founder view is a little better than yours.

Mark Luhman
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 9:09 pm

Excuse me if the EPA is doing such a great job why do we still have superfund sites 50 years later. If they can’t fix their original mandate why trust them to fix any other problem.

stinkerp
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 2, 2023 9:14 am

No it wasn’t. Creating the EPA had little to do with it exercising authoritarian power today. What Nixon did was simply consolidate into one agency the work being done by several agencies to enforce the various environmental regulations enacted by Congress like the Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act. The culprit for the unchecked power to make law (“regulations”) now wielded by federal agencies goes back to the 1946 Administrative Procedure Act. It gave Executive Branch agencies the ability to legislate, a power the Constitution reserved only for our elected representatives in Congress. The Founders structured it that way on purpose to prevent the tyrannical exercise of power by unelected, unaccountable leaders; to avoid the situation we are in today where bureaucrats make laws that the People cannot remove because they have no power or process to do so.

The solution isn’t restructuring agencies nor is it diluting their focus by spreading their work among other agencies, nor is it electing Republican presidents and a Republican-majority Congress. The solution is to overhaul the APA or repeal and replace it. Federal agencies should only have power to advise Congress and propose regulations to Congress where those regulations would be debated and put up for a vote. Only this will prevent the oscillation between benevolent and malign agency behavior under different presidential administrations.

Dave Fair
Reply to  stinkerp
April 2, 2023 10:12 am

I wonder if the Supreme Court of The United States is moving in that direction? It’s recent decision ruling against EPA overreach, beyond lawfully-granted Congressional authority, is a welcome step.

Duane
Reply to  stinkerp
April 2, 2023 10:30 am

The APA doesn’t make administrative policy. The President and those whom he appoints to senior positions in the agencies are who make administrative policy. While Congress makes statutory policy … and the courts provide judicial review. And that is exactly how our Constitution set it all up. Separation of powers, and checks and balances. Nobody has absolute power in our nation.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 12:05 pm

Trump was impeached the first time for disagreeing with the State Department weenies on Eastern Europe. Eliminating civil service might be required.

stinkerp
Reply to  Duane
April 2, 2023 9:11 pm

I’m not sure what your point is. Administrative and statutory policy have exactly the same effect: the citizens have to obey it and there are penalties if they don’t. In other words, it’s the law. Courts will find you guilty for breaking it whether Congress passed it or the EPA instituted it. The Founders knew that unelected government bureaucrats making laws (ie.; “administrative policy”) would lead to an erosion of the freedoms of the citizens. That’s why they specifically and only gave that power to our elected representatives. The APA was the result of a decade of maneuvering and debate initiated by Franklin D. Roosevelt and his likeminded Democrats who were unhappy with their inability to implement some of their socialist New Deal policies that were struck down by courts, and the difficulty of having Congress make all the rules for the explosion of federal agencies that resulted from the New Deal. They figured it was a way to speed along their policies; circumventing the deliberative process of legislation in Congress and just letting the “experts” in the agencies come up with the rules. In reality, it’s authoritarianism.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  stinkerp
April 3, 2023 9:56 am

But that will be too hard for Congress – they can’t even pass a budget on a yearly basis – imagine them having to review and legislate on thousands of regulations a year.

Oh, I see your canny approach here – maybe there should be fewer new/revised regulations!

Tom.1
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 2, 2023 11:59 am

As long as you understand that there would still be an EPA whether Nixon signed on to it or not.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Tom.1
April 2, 2023 12:08 pm

Leaving enforcement up to Interior would have been better, as Interior has other concerns, and might have a sense of proportion.

Editor
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 2, 2023 2:50 pm

The EPA was a good idea. It used to do a good job. It just lacked a sunset clause. What has happened is that the EPA has done a good enough job that there is a lot less for them to do now (NB. Not nothing). The top brass at the EPA are now in charge of an organisation that is much larger than needed, but no bureaucracy will willingly reduce its size. The EPA therefore pursues everything it can in order to maintain its size, its power and its influence. That has taken it off the rails.

The process is all described very accurately by Jerry Pournelle. [I seem to be quoting this a lot nowadays, but it is now happening everywhere, in spades]. It summarises as – each bureaucracy ends up caring only for itself.

Jerry Pournelle’s Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people:
First, there will be those who are devoted to the goals of the organization. Examples are dedicated classroom teachers in an educational bureaucracy, many of the engineers and launch technicians and scientists at NASA, even some agricultural scientists and advisors in the former Soviet Union collective farming administration.
Secondly, there will be those dedicated to the organization itself. Examples are many of the administrators in the education system, many professors of education, many teachers union officials, much of the NASA headquarters staff, etc.
The Iron Law states that in every case the second group will gain and keep control of the organization. It will write the rules, and control promotions within the organization.

Tom Halla
Reply to  Mike Jonas
April 2, 2023 3:12 pm

The only thing that seems to overcome Pournelle’s Law is outside influence. GM was an example, and the bureaucrats forgot they were an auto manufacturing company. The Japanese eventually reminded them of what they were supposed to be doing.
Disestablishing runaway bureaucracies, like EPA, Energy, or BATFE might be the only way to rein them in.

Drake
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 2, 2023 6:12 pm

You forgot a couple, FBI, DOJ, DO Education, HEW, etc. Pretty much all of the alphabets because they are NOT constitutional responsibilities given to the congress, so are reserved for the States or the People.

Everything that is not specified in the Constitution has been enacted based on the Interstate Commerce Clause. This SCOTUS needs to set this right.

Return all unconstitutional expenditures to the states, block granted BASED ON THE POPULATION OF CITIZENS, not just residents. First year at 80%, then 60 then 40 than 20 then 0, and the states can decide what is important.

And people can vote with their feet, moving to states that expect people to work for a living.

John Shewchuk
April 2, 2023 6:51 am

The Endangerment Finding is the fraudulent foundation of the Green New Deal … https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9iF_b9wU3Q

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  John Shewchuk
April 2, 2023 8:27 am

Initiated by Massachusetts.

In Massachusetts v. EPA (2007), the Supreme Court held that greenhouse gases are pollutants under the Clean Air Act.

https://www.edf.org/overview-epa-endangerment-finding

which is why I keep saying this state is the Mecca of this plague, which is why I call it Woke-achusetts

Frank from NoVA
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 2, 2023 9:02 am

If I had a magic lamp, smug Progressive strongholds like Martha’s Vineyard would literally sink under the weight of the wind turbines, solar panels, Section Eight housing, etc. that I would install.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
April 2, 2023 9:10 am

I really took notice of DeSantis after he flew a plane load of illegals to that island and they turned it around and sent it to a national guard base on Cape Cod. I thought his action was brilliant.

rah
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 2, 2023 9:22 am

So you really think a politician backed by the Bush’s and with Karl Rove running his campaign is going to try and fight to reign in the current DC establishment? LOL!

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  rah
April 2, 2023 11:00 am

Trump is unelectable so you get 2nd best- somebody electable- then everyone push him hard to do the right thing.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 2, 2023 1:50 pm

I’m voting for Trump if given the chance.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 3, 2023 10:02 am

Wait until tomorrow.

sturmudgeon
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 2, 2023 2:23 pm

D-S didn’t even have the intestinal fortitude to act during the ‘event’ at Mar-A-Largo. It would have taken very little, and would have gained the Respect of millions. (NO D-S as the Country’s Leader, thanks)

BenVincent
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
April 2, 2023 8:58 pm

Or make it tip over.

Ron Long
April 2, 2023 7:18 am

OK, the tone of the Agencies of each Administration swing to the left and the right with each general election. But here is the problem: the Democrats swing very far to the left (look at WOKE nonsense, including mutilating children without their parents consent, Global Warming, “Green Energy”, etc) but the Republicans only correct a little. If the Republicans gain the White House and both parts of Congress, this coming general election, they should drain the swamp, clean house, and charge those responsible for fraud and corruption (like: where did the missing $636 million for private schools in the Covid Relief Act, end up?). Only one candidate can do that in the USA, and there is a concentrated effort underway to compromise him. This coming General Election may be an actual Tipping Point. Have to wait for it.

Steve Case
Reply to  Ron Long
April 2, 2023 7:37 am

“This coming General Election may be an actual Tipping Point.
Have to wait for it.”
________________________________________________________

Um, yeah, well, Ron, that would be a “long” shot.

Ron Long
Reply to  Steve Case
April 2, 2023 12:34 pm

Steve, I am a gold exploration geologist, I take long shots all the time, and sometimes I score.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Ron Long
April 2, 2023 8:29 am

DeSantis! Most people I know are either Dems or Independent but most like DeSantis

Dave Fair
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
April 2, 2023 10:15 am

“How could that man have been elected President; nobody I know voted for him.”

Gums
Reply to  Ron Long
April 2, 2023 8:37 am

Salute!

You must read the actual acts that were passed to see how the various agencies became corrupted…not criminal payoffs and such, but the process was corrupted and actions were taken that exceeded whatever Congress intended.

I read the infamous “Affordable Care Act” versions until it passed. How many folks do you know that did that? Well, now you know one. All throughout it repeats over and over “… upon direction/approval/etc of the Secretary”. I could see the looming disaster without trying very hard. I also read some of the arguments presented for the case when our executive branch lawyers failed to counter the EPA’s opinion that CO2 was a pollutant. I already knew that within a year or two that the ‘endangerment finding’ was on its way. So welcome to the green new deal, unreliable power, mandatory heat pumps, no more gas ranges for cooking, cars that take a half hour charge to get another 50 or 60 miles down the road, and the beat goes on.

Many laws have been passed since the establishment of EPA and other cabinet positions or agencies. They all have those phrases giving the Secretary vast powers with a host of unintended consequences. And all it takes is a Secretary with an agenda and there’s not much Congress can do without a new act.

Gums sends…

Mark BLR
Reply to  Ron Long
April 3, 2023 5:41 am

If the Republicans gain the White House and both parts of Congress, this coming general election, they should drain the swamp, clean house, and charge those responsible for fraud and corruption …

Only one candidate can do that in the USA …

The 115th Congress of the USA, i.e. calendar years 2017 and 2018, fulfilled your conditions.

Donald Trump campaigned on “Drain the swamp !”.

First of all the “deep state” bureaucrats distracted him, then they derailed all (more or less) serious attempts to “drain the swamp”.

NB : They will do that to any Democrat or third-party candidate who gets elected in the future on a “let’s battle corruption / waste / warmongering neo-cons” platform.

Donald Trump tried and failed to “do that” from 2016 with both parts of Congress in Republican hands.

Who is the “one candidate” you have in mind ?

vuk
April 2, 2023 9:48 am

Climate change is wrecking my arti-farti-intelligence !

Q: When is forthcoming Easter ?

ChatGPT: Easter is a moveable holiday, meaning that its date changes every year. In 2023, Easter Sunday will fall on April 16th.

Bard: Easter 2023 will be celebrated on April 17th. It is a movable feast that falls on the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox.

There you have it.

Dave Fair
Reply to  vuk
April 2, 2023 10:18 am

April 9th?

doonman
Reply to  Dave Fair
April 2, 2023 1:06 pm

April 9th for western christianity April 16th for eastern orthodox.

Dave Fair
Reply to  doonman
April 2, 2023 1:42 pm

It appears my calendar is not eastern orthodox.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  doonman
April 3, 2023 10:08 am

Thanks for that point. I thought that the eastern orthodox churches followed by 2 weeks.

Yooper
Reply to  Dave Fair
April 2, 2023 1:07 pm

An interesting factoid about Easter this year: the sequence of Feast Days for Easter follows the gospel narratives. This year Passover is on the Wednesday before Easter just like in the gospels. The Last Supper was the Passover Seder Meal. So, why/how was the timing of Easter decoupled from Passover?

Dave Fair
Reply to  Yooper
April 2, 2023 1:44 pm

Without going into any great study, I assume its because Christianity split off from Judaism.

sturmudgeon
Reply to  Dave Fair
April 2, 2023 2:28 pm

My ‘guess’ is that ALL religious “holidays?” have been dated for ‘convenience’, to keep the ‘faithful’ attending.

Dave Fair
Reply to  sturmudgeon
April 2, 2023 5:04 pm

I can’t get the damned Google Calendar to delete any of the multiple “important” dates like Federal and religious holidays and commemorative days and months like Women’s History, Black History, Trans Vengeance, Gay Pride, Earth Day & etc., items I don’t give a shit about.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  Yooper
April 3, 2023 10:11 am

It is because Easter must always be on a Sunday, while Passover follows a lunar cycle. And the (western) Christian Church teaches that the Last Supper (the Passover meal) was on the Thursday before Easter, with the Crucifixion on the Friday before Easter. This year, there is a gap between the Jewisn and (western) Christian traditions of 1 day.

Peta of Newark
Reply to  vuk
April 2, 2023 10:19 am

Oh dear oh dear oh dear. sigh

At least little Phoebe was on the ball

Moon Phase April.PNG
atticman
Reply to  vuk
April 2, 2023 10:23 am

More like Artificial Stupidity, then…

Retired_Engineer_Jim
Reply to  vuk
April 3, 2023 10:07 am

And yet my printed calendar here on my desk, and the Sexagesimal Calendar in the back of the Book of Common Prayer, state that Easter is on April 9th. So much for AI.

nailheadtom
April 2, 2023 9:52 am

`There’s no voting your way out of this. There’s a reason the federal agencies are all located in the DC area, both the Republican and Democratic government gangs are reluctant to move their troops to the hinterland. Historically, every government and its leadership has felt that their rule would last indefinitely because they had found the “best way”. All of them are now extinct. Making life for the plebs more complex and expensive, the goal of the bureaucrats and rent seekers, eventually reaches the point where compliance ends. It’s described well by Joseph Tainter in his book ‘The “Collapse of Complex Societies”.

Mike McMillan
Reply to  nailheadtom
April 2, 2023 8:34 pm

Moving departments and agencies to the Heartland would be a great idea.
Move the FBI to Chicago (the Southside), move EPA to Lenexa, KS (close to BOTH Kansas City’s, Missouri AND Kansas), Homeland Security to Rio Grande City (only 40 miles from McAllen), Commerce Dept to Pueblo, CO, Food and Drug to San Francisco or Portland, Interior to Wyoming (of course, where else?), Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms to Hawaii (the Big Island, then defund them), VA to Omaha (cultural capital of eastern Nebraska), lastly, Treasury to Fort Knox. I think some of the FAA is already in Oklahoma City (that’s a start).

Well, that was fun. Four more years of Trump, then eight of DeSantis is about the only way that’d happen.

John Oliver
April 2, 2023 12:13 pm

I see a lot of good points made here. I remember the sixties and seventies. Studied Con law in the late 70s too. So yes good points and counter points by Duane and others. But here is the problem that trumps it all: we have reached a level of corruption in government now( especially the critical agencies like Justice Dept , Home land sec , local judicial democratic strong holds etc) that the checks and balances designed into the system are not functioning anymore. And worst of all about half the citizens of the US are either ignorant of the extent of the corruption or or even more horrific is they actually appear to support it.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  John Oliver
April 2, 2023 2:11 pm

“But here is the problem that trumps it all: we have reached a level of corruption in government now( especially the critical agencies like Justice Dept , Home land sec , local judicial democratic strong holds etc) that the checks and balances designed into the system are not functioning anymore. And worst of all about half the citizens of the US are either ignorant of the extent of the corruption or or even more horrific is they actually appear to support it.”

I think you nailed it.

We need Trump back in the White House to shake it all up again.

DeSantis hurt himself with his calling the Ukraine war a regional conflict and downplaying its significance.

Trump has complained about many areas of the Ukraine war but he hasn’t called it a regional conflict, and he hasn’t said it is not in the interests of the United States to help Ukraine.

And some don’t like the drama surrounding Trump? I heard one guy say that this weekend. Well, when the radical Left and its mouthpiece the Leftwing Media starts creating drama around DeSantis or any other leading Republican, is that going to be sufficient to turn you off from voting for DeSantis or others, too? If the radical Left is happy, then you are happy? That’s the way it appears. The RINO’s want to Kowtow to the radical Left.

Keep in mind that all the drama around Trump is a creation of the radical Left. Trump has not been found guilty of ANYTHING despite the best efforts of these no-good bastards.

They struggled for years to try to get Trump’s tax returns, just knowing they would find something in there they could use against him, and after years of litigation, they finally got an Obama judge to release Trump’s tax returns and make them public.

And have you heard anything about Trump’s tax returns since they were released? No, you have not. The reason being that the radical Leftists have not been able to find even one damn thng wrong with Trump’s taxes afer all those deals and all those years, and the radical Left has quietly dropped their conversation about Trump’s tax returns.

They have nothing on Trump. They have never had anything on Trump. All they have is their Leftwing Media Smear Machine, which apparently is effective on some weak-kneed, not-very-smart Republicans.

If the radical Left would treat Trump like a regular human being, there wouldn’t be any drama. Trump would be a very sweet guy if you treat him nice. But if you hit him, he is going to hit you back. Just what we need in this day and age.

We don’t need a nice guy right now. We need a Trump to beat the Hell out of the radical Left and send them packing.

If Trump loses, then the Deep State/Radical Left and all their Lies, wins, and all the rest of us lose as a consequence.

We have been looking at an attempted coup by the Radical Left since Trump was first elected. The latest drama is just an extension of these attacks on our personal freedoms by attacking our representative.

I’m voting for Trump.

Curious George
Reply to  Tom Abbott
April 2, 2023 3:02 pm

I voted for him twice, but no more. Since 2020 elections he only complains about everything. He does not project a path to the future. He alienated too many people, including myself. I don’t believe in him anymore.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Curious George
April 3, 2023 4:00 am

So you wouldn’t vote for Trump if the choice was between Trump and Joe Biden and the radical Democrats?

Say it aint’ so. Please.

tomo
April 2, 2023 2:13 pm

“we can do whatever we want”

Seems the unpublished motto of the goons running the equivalent in England – The Environment Agency

see:

http://avoncliffmills.blogspot.com/2023/03/in-2009-we-applied-for-2-water-licenses.html

Curious George
April 2, 2023 2:26 pm

Slightly off-topic: Did EPA ever pay $1.2 billion for poisoning Animas river in 2015?

tomo
Reply to  Curious George
April 3, 2023 5:24 am

If I recall correctly they promptly dusted off a 2 year old report about VW emissions and started shouting (screeching even) about it like their existence depended on it?

Less than 48 hours and the orange river was conveniently supplanted by Hitler’s favourite car maker.

Martin Brumby
April 2, 2023 7:40 pm

“Oral Argument Not Scheduled”

Gosh.

I think that’s exactly the problem.

The EPA and their corrupt, incompetent, malign Political Masters have been refusing to debate the “Settled Science” for a Generation.

George B
April 3, 2023 5:01 am

Since the early 1990s, EPA has been at the heart of de-industrializing the USA. I read an article recently that there is a shortage of medical nitroglycerine (NG) because key ingredients are from China. The last time I checked NG is manufactured from concentrated nitric and sulfuric acids and glycerine (glycerol). I find it difficult to believe that we do not produce these in the USA unless there is a regulatory reason.
Do not try to make this at home!

I am sure many have noticed the increased price of lead-acid batteries over the last few years. The USA no longer has a large lead smelting operation. I am sure that some EPA ruling is at the heart of this. There is a lot of lead remaining in Missouri. Lead is not evil.

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