From NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT
By Paul Homewood
How the Government is out of touch with reality – Part 99999:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-sets-out-path-to-zero-emission-vehicles-by-2035
This announcement came out in September, but I missed this gem!
Click on the link, and you get this:
https://www.gov.uk/electric-vehicle-chargepoint-grant-household
So, to recap, if you live in a flat and therefore cannot charge your EV in your drive, the government will pay you £350 towards a charging point in your home!
I assume they expect you to stick your car in the lift and push it into your kitchen to charge up.
What planet are these idiots on?
We are not stupid, Government! We know that your real objective is to force us all out of our cars, by hook or by crook. Except, that is, for the elite who will be allowed to travel anywhere they want, anyhow they want.
Sad day now that the “But what about people in flats” argument is gone.
“I assume they expect you to stick your car in the lift and push it into your kitchen to charge up.
What planet are these idiots on?”
Wait, owning a flat in the UK doesn’t come with assigned parking lot?
And if you really think they will pay you to have a charging spot in your kitchen on the third floor..
“We are not stupid, Government!”
…the Government is probably right.
Not everybody owns their flat. Those that do only have a leasehold and not freehold.
They don’t usually have assigned spaces, either.
And you think tearing up pavement and underground conduits around the parking lot will be so inexpensive that £350 will actually make it possible for those living in flats to install a charging post in the parking lot?
Who is going to pay for the electricity extracted from those charging points? Is a separate meter going to be installed at each post? And what do you do if your neighbor uses your charging post while you are at work?
Interesting questions. Thus far local authorities, in London at least, have installed some fast charging bays, but most of the charging provision is provided from street lighting – ie lamp posts.
Siemens has partnered with electric vehicle charging solutions provider ubitricity to transform hundreds of London’s street lamps into new on street chargers.
https://www.current-news.co.uk/siemens-to-deploy-londons-street-light-electric-vehicle-chargers-with-ubitricity/
The problem will come when people who are used to being able to park – for a hefty charge to the local authority – outside their houses find they cannot – for hours and hours. Lamp posts are slow charging designed for overnight charging…. Not all lamp posts have them. In my part of the street there are… just 2
Just wondering- what if it rains? Can’t the rain get into the outlets and cause a short?
Seems not – thus far, anyway.
Better yet, what happens when moisture/salt cause corrosion of the connectors? (think San Diego, Miami, etc) High resistance causes heating which causes more corrosion which causes more heat which ultimately causes FIRE! How will these charging points be maintained and by who?
Don’t forget northern cities that use salt on the roads every winter.
gold
Only if Just Stop Outlets pours salt into the connectors. /s
New ones, probably not. After a few years, probably so.
Addendum
The funny bit is watching them stand in the rain while they go through the steps on an app on their phones with instructions on the lamp post…
Oh well.
If they’re anything like the car park apps they’ll probably give up after a while and find somewhere else.
When lighting systems are designed, the electric cables running to each lamp post is designed to be big enough to power the lamp. There simply is not enough spare capacity to charge a car. If you want to be able to fully charge a car over night, you are going to have to run new power lines for each post.
Beyond that, there are 3 to 4 parked cars for every lamp post. What are the cars that aren’t parked in front of the post supposed to do?
It might be an either/or thing – either it’s powering the lamp (dark) or it’s powering the EV socket (daylight). Which might well mean no overnight charging?
Instal more lamp posts !!! sarc
I can imagine in my minds eye a large dog having a wee on that gizmo.
Older style street light bulbs pulled a few hundred watts each. Not a lot of power available, even during the day to charge an EV.
In many cities, new street lights are LED, so presumably, the amount of energy available is going to be even less.
That was supposed to be in response to Richard Page.
Over here, “across the pond”, the problem would come when all those long extensions cables going from lamp post to parked EVs—with several pounds of salvageable copper, likely worth several USD $ each—disappeared overnight.
Hopefully, such hasn’t yet become a problem in the UK, but methinks it is only a matter of time.
It’s already big business here:
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1758387/electric-car-charging-cables-theft-warning
I wonder how much the copper in that cable is worth?
Apparently the way it works on the public charging points is that you have your own charging cable, you connect it to the socket and use an app to authorize payment. At that point, the socket locks the cable in place and will only continue charging as long as the cable remains connected to the car. If somebody tried to disconnect you to connect your cable to their car, the charge would stop but the cable would not release. (Not sure if the car also locks the cable). So thieves can’t steal the power or the cable. Each socket is metered separately. You have to use the app again to end the charging session and release the cable.
In a parking garage with assigned spaces I assume they might still use the same system although it could also be designed to reject the charge if not authorized from your app/personal login.
Well the problem of how to prevent fraud is the least of our worries. The problems are how to deliver enough power to the parking garage given a vastly undersized grid infrastructure, how to deal with the risk of a battery fire in an enclosed area typically below living space, and how to produce the power without fossil fuel.
“So thieves can’t steal the power or the cable.”
Well, there are hand-leveraged end-cutters that can easily cut through 1/4″ steel padlock shanks, commercially available for $50 USD or so.
If one is careful and only cuts through one copper conductor of an EV charging cable at a time, the length of the charging cable, less supposedly-locked-in-place end connectors can be silently and safely removed in, oh, about 15 seconds.
Not that I am personally experienced in such matters.
Copper theft is already a big business for criminals. Can you imagine how enticing a block-long city street would be to a copper thief with a bunch of charging cords laying on the ground?
I was just sharing what I learned by researching the info that strativarius posted because I thought it might be of some interest to normal people, KnowItAll. Obviously it wasn’t intended for people like you whose only joy in life is to dispute everything for no apparent reason.
I can always depend on you to miss the point. You’re a real sad case. If we were talking about New York, thieves could remove all the wheels, too, you hockey puck. (Hint, that’s like rhyming slang)
The point was that people can’t plug into your outlet or plug your cable into their car to charge on your dime. If you weren’t such a dumb (ahem) puck, who wasn’t trolling around to show us how you know it all, all the time, you could have figured that out.
So yeah a criminal could walk down the street and cut all the cables to steal the copper. Except that in London you probably can’t cut a fart without it being caught on cctv. But whatever.
You claimed they couldn’t steal the cable, you were completely wrong. Pointing that out is not missing the point, it was you who missed the point.
Your further whines just make you look even more childish.
Bless your little heart Mark
Calmly…
I came at this from exactly the same attitude as most people here. The whole idea is absurd. But I was curious to know if the system was really so poorly conceived that someone could pull the cable off a charging car to charge their own car for free, stealing the electricity and leaving the poor hapless victim with a dead battery and a bill to pay. Or if they could stroll along collecting cables for black market resale with minimal effort (That was just an afterthought by the way).
Since that’s apparently not the case, I thought to share the knowledge. Why? Because when skeptics make comments that make them look uninformed, it undermines the message that I support, which is: EVs are an impractical, unnecessary, dangerous, expensive waste. Toys for the rich paid for by the taxes of those who can’t afford the excess.
But the focus should be on the last paragraph of my comment and not on uninformed inaccurate criticisms.
Also, my “claim” (as if I give a shit about it!) isn’t “completely wrong”. You can’t steal the functional cable. You can cut the connector ends off and steal the scrap copper. Just as you could jack the car up and steal the wheels. You could also steal the surveillance cameras. I was completely wrong about that too I guess?
WOW . . . hit a nerve, did I?
Old adage: if you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
But I do thank you for
ventingsharing. Have a good day.Does the EV come with a cell phone? There *are* still people out there that don’t have cell phones. I don’t always carry mine. What are those whose cell phones are broken or run-down going to do?
So now we will have to worry about someone hijacking our cell phone in order to use a charging station? Does all the app need is a credit card number? Another reason for identify thieves to steal your credit card!
Identify theft is already big business. Doing EV charging with a stolen identity may very well turn out to be a major problem. I’ve already had my credit card hacked twice and each time the bank caught it and cancelled my card – meaning I had to use cash for a number of days till the new card showed up. Are the charging stations going to accept cash? If all you have is an EV you might be without a vehicle for several days!
Look, if you don’t have a cell phone you sure as hell aren’t getting a freaking Tesla Tim. A Tesla is basically a big honking cell phone on wheels.
I am not advocating this bullshit. I was just sharing what I learned. Sorry for that. Sheesh.
Here in Alberta stealing catalytic converters is big business, apparently the best thieves only need 30 seconds under your vehicle, so it will take 5 seconds to steal these charging cables.
On the bright side these people will then leave the ground grids in substations alone
You don’t understand sarcasm or humour do you?
A charging spot “in your home.” Not stupid, User, but, you need to read a bit more carefully…
Wow, you really are off in cloud cuckoo land aren’t you !!
They are a very STUPID government..
And you are a very STUPID person for thinking they are not. !
Yer average council estate can facilitate the running of cables out of the windows to the cars parked below. They’ll have to be quite long….
I wanna see an AI draw dozens of cables out of that building to the cars. Should be funny.
Judging from the curtains looks like there are about 90 flats in that bloc. Renamed ‘spaghetti house’ once all the cables are in place. 🙂
Sigh ! block
Net Zero politicians/bureaucrats are totally divorced from reality.
Their aim to reduce global CO2 is not going to happen. They should not cripple their economies trying to do so.
“Net Zero politicians/bureaucrats are totally divorced from reality.”
Absolutely, the Net Zero charade is the result of viewing the world through the rose coloured glasses of the wealthy top couple of percent of the population of wealthy, comfortable, Western economies.
Trouble is, even if there were enogh street or driveway charging points, there is not enough local carrying capacity to power a whole street full of EVs and heat pumps. Its not going to work.
What will happen with the limits on the percentage of ICE cars that manufacturers may sell is also interesting. The tax incentives on company cars have probably led to that segment of the market being fully taken up. It probably accounts for the vast majority of new EV sales at the moment. As of Jan 1 2024 manufacturers have to sell 22% of their cars as EVs. This rises in subsequent years until it reaches 80% in 2030.
This rise is going to have to come from private, non-fleet, buyers.
Labour may make it 100% in 2030 when and if they get in next year.
So, what happens if the personal buyers won’t buy new EVs? Which is quite likely, the OBR has just reduced its estimates of EV sales for later years, and which they can easily do by holding on to their existing cars another couple of years. The car manufacturers are fined 15,000 for every ICE car over their quota, so they will be between a rock and a hard place. If they just do not manufacture them, their revenues will drop. If they do, they will have to pass the costs on to the buyers, which will in turn raise their costs, and lower sales.
Because if its going to cost you a few grand more to get a new ICE car, you are a new car buyer so your existing car is probably less than 5 years old, well, you just hang on to it.
This is going to be a train wreck. And that’s before the big one which is going to happen one of these days, an EV spontaneously ignites, maybe in an attached garage, maybe in apartment block basement parking, maybe on Eurostar or a ferry. Its when, its not if. What is that going to do to EV sales?
The most amazing statistic to have surfaced recently is the cost of Net Zero in the UK. Over the next few years it varies from about 14 billion to about 18 billion a year. And that is not even all the costs.
This is truly insane. No-one can give any reason why this is being done, but all political parties support it. Bar Reform. It can have no effect whatever on global emissions or the global climate. But it can take the UK into a serious economic slump and impose great social hardship on the poorer citizens.
Central planning by the government NEVER works out. The examples of this since 1920 are legion. Yet it seems the liberal left has never studied history at all! The central planners are NEVER smart enough to actually figure out what the results of their policies will be, NEVER. It’s why Adam Smith’s concept of the “invisible hand” is so important. Government simply can’t substitute itself for the combined judgement of the populace.
I understand your skepticism, but THIS time it is going to work.
Don’t you know we have AI now? And, and models!
Uuuum . . . I heard the exact same thing the LAST time.
And you will hear it again next time.
“what happens if the personal buyers won’t buy new EVs?”
I expect to see ICE makers start to say in their adds that “our cars are so well built that if you buy one before we must stop making them- that they’ll last as long as you do”. They’ll be competing on this idea But then again, will ICE makers be able to still make parts after they can no longer make the cars?
Some of the more forward – thinking manufacturers might still make parts to see their ICE customers through this madness. Others might go the hybrid route, making 80-90% of the components compatible with all-EV cars and just make replacement engines and fuel systems. It’ll be painful to watch either way.
Some car manufacturers are putting out entirely new lines of internal combustion engines. I don’t think ICE is dead yet.
It will result in the ludicrous situation of the manufactures being penalised for NOT MAKING products that customers DONT WANT.
Do not underestimate the willingness of those in government to use tax policy to force people to change. Bought a carton of cigarettes lately? When there is a £50 per liter tax on gasoline the game is over. It’s walk, bicycle, public transport, or EV.
If I lived in a warm climate, I’d be happy getting around on my mountain bike. But I live in Wokeachusetts and even if it’s getting a bit warmer, it ain’t warm enough.
When you say billion do you mean 10^9 or 10^12?
I’m guessing you go by million, milliard(=billion), billion(=trillion)
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2023/11/24/environmental-levies-to-cost-95bn-in-next-six-years/
“I’m guessing you go by million, milliard(=billion), billion(=trillion)”
Yes.
Wow two down votes for what is confirmed below to be the correct answer.
Of course I do understand that it’s the height of insolence for Michel not to comply with ‘Murcan standards. Talk American willya Michel?
“Labour may make it 100% by 2030”
If they go ahead with that it’s likely the UK will not have any car manufacturers in 2030.
Currently, according to the SMMT there are almost 1m people employed in car
manufacturing and the wider automotive industry in the UK and the industry accounts for 10% of total exports and £77 bn of trade. Are politician’s really that stupid that they would destroy the industry?
(Note for our friends; SMMT is ‘Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders’)
Sounds wonderful, unless you think about it, so it should keep Just Stop Oil happy.
“Govt To Pay £350 For EV Chargers in Flats”
Or to be more accurate,
“UK Taxpayers And Utility Bill Payers To Pay £350 For EV Chargers in Flats.”
No matter how barking mad this scheme might seem (to people educated before the 1980s?) it is their plan, and all politicians have to have a plan of some kind; they call it their Manifesto.
The curious thing is a Party Manifesto was most accurately described by none other than Mike Tyson: “Everybody’s got a plan until they get punched in the face”. The promises evaporate and the hardships begin. Everybody groans and sucks it up.
This is what makes Net Zero so very attractive to the political class and aspirants to join it. They have plans that must be implemented and we…. we are going to get punched in the face, again.
And the cost for one of these systems is over £900, £1250 for a standard (no thick concrete walls or long cable runs) installation. This for flats which are usually classed as low-end housing for people on low incomes or at entry-level in the housing market. The government is so out of touch with reality that it is beyond laughable, it’s bordering on lunacy.
“bordering” ???
Don’t worry, the government will “encourage” people to switch to electric cars by limiting, then banning petrol stations. You know its coming.
That may happen too, but I expect municipal governments to lead the way. Clean air zones. Punitive congestion charging for ICE. Banning filling stations. Plus they will do all the other anti-personal transport stuff: closing off parking areas; punitive parking charges; restricted access/15-minute cities; aggressive traffic “calming” measures; alternate day vehicle use, etc.
Get rid of personal transport and you get rid of the battery charging problem, and at just about no upfront cost. They’re gonna do it. As you say, “You know it’s coming.”
One phenomena of the COVID-1984 plandemic was the closure of many offices leading to Work-From-Home. What follows is a reluctance of many laptop class workers who really don’t want to return to the office and make that a strong influence on what jobs or clients they consider taking. In response, to attract good talent many employers offer the WFH option since it means that employers can also cut down on office expense, which include relocating a core office in a more business friendly opportunity zone.
The same effect may happen here. Talent might say that they have zero interest living or working in a 15-minute city and the savvy employer will not see any benefit in operating in a 15-minute city. Enough of this sort of vetoing of this blatant Communism and the council might discover that they rule over low producing, dependent underclass that really aren’t good citizens in general, and certainly offer nothing that can be taxed/grifted away by the pols who seek power.
Many people are going to be saying “Who is John Galt?”
Farming bans will be especially impactful.
Well we know none of it will work . Not now , not in the short term, mid term or long run as we have discussed here many times. The real question now is : will our nations even survive the insanity? And I mean that across the board in terms of all aspects of current events.
I recently watched another interview of Douglas Murray ( not on climate change) which really got me worried. I did not realize just how bad things had gotten in some UK cities in terms of wokness insane policy. Not much better here in US with Biden- open border green energy mandates. But UK is smaller could fall more easily. I fear for our cousins across the pond; as I do for the nation hood and intrinsic identity of all our unique experiments in the form of limited government.
I’m not talking invasion per se. But self imposed internal destruction that destroys the cohesiveness of a society.
Islamic birth and immigration rates project a future European caliphate,
Douglas Murray is an extraordinary gem, but Marxists are perfectly capable of living in their own insanity or ideological delusions right up to the point of impact! And if we wait too long to replace them in the pilot’s seat, then there won’t be enough time to pull out of the kamikaze dive they have us in!
While the woke are worried about climate “ tipping points” , the real tipping point is right now and it is sociological and economic, not climate .
Wait until someone asks about wireless charging like phones.
Asks? Look up ‘Plugless’ the wireless EV charging system – they’ve already gone and developed it!
Uh, didn’t you mean to say “Look up ‘Clueless“, the wireless EV charging system . . .
kWh of electrical energy transfer via RF??? Physics 101.
I’m with you on this one but do go and look for yourself. I couldn’t believe it was a thing until mkelly’s comment got me thinking.
Every now and then, some EV enthusiast actually suggests running wires under the street in the center of each lane, so that cars could charge while they drive.
After the brainless ones have implemented their Nut Zero regs there are likely to be lots and lots of very low mileage second hand ICE driven motors imported from countries run by less gormless Polscum.
Expect to see some makers with names ending in -az or just -z in Europe. Either that or a rapid rebranding effort in Moldova, Romania or countries near there.
And once again, the people who are miscalculating the cost of ownership of EVs, have completely ignored the cost of having to replace the battery every 10 years or so.
10 years if you are very, very careful and can take the extra time and effort to charge it well every time. For most people it’ll be less, more like 7 or 8.
Would you believe 6 or 7? Those using EVs to provide ride sharing services are find that batteries crap out right around their warranty mileage ratings. Then, they find out their original calculations were wrong as MarkW states.
Scrapping in many cases will result in greater emissions and landfill usage.
Yeah I would believe it. I knew most got through the warranty period but only lasted a few years beyond that. 6 or 7 doesn’t surprise me much at all about these things really.
It will only take one Grenfell-style disaster for EV’s to be banned from the parking lots of blocks of flats. The tragedy is, it will take a Grenfell-style disaster before the government changes its mind.
Did anyone who required the “energy saving” cladding of that building go to jail for their murders?
In our retirement village, the charging of EVs in the underground car-park is already banned. But, strangely, there is no publicity for this sensible precaution – bet that changes if there is ever one EV fire!
70,000 people expected to attend COP 28 in a couple of weeks. It won’t affect you however as most will fly into Dubai on private jets.
Sounds like it should be called the Super Hoax and they should get Taylor Swift to sing in the middle of it.
Hope they have got enough air traffic controllers 🙂
They’ll fly in enough before hand.
“The government” HAS NO MONEY. The taxpayers and or conventional power ratepayers are paying for this scam. Arrrrgh. 🙄
Even more subsidies for the unsupportables! yet they seem to have overlooked the fact that there will not be sufficient power available to power all of these new EVs! Total madness, from politicians who have not a clue about any technical matter!
The challenge will be actually getting the supplier to agree to a charger given constraints on the grid capacity.